it is a testament to SE's character development how biased we all are toward our favorites (no matter how objective and logical we think we're being.)
so much of this is theory, and at that, theory based upon the
opinions of other characters (e.g., ST thinks not even Cotillion could have performed the Claw massacre as Apsalar did, yet Apsalar herself is unsure if she'd walk away from a fight with Kalam).
"on any given day" definitely holds true in this universe. few of our favorite demigods would get a guaranteed win over another from SE so it's all just great fodder for speculation.
top swordsman...eh... probably rake, but it's virtually impossible to separate a magic wielder's magic from their sword skills.
how much of these characters' magic is manifest when simply sword-fighting? is it making them stronger, faster, more enduring? they don't have to be throwing fireballs to be using their magic. they don't even have to be conscious of it. it's indicated that rake is using magic all the time just to carry Super-Stormbringer. the segulah are incredible fighters, but we don't know either way if magic plays some role in their abilities. it would seem so since Lady Envy implies she's under significant magical strain (and she's no slouch!) to keep her 3 "ensnared" Seguleh under her control. if so, then comparing brys to the 2nd might not be apples to apples. who knows.
great discussion, but i don't know that we can distill these characters down to a level playing field to determine an "order". the flat-out mixed martial arts (and i don't mean simply hand-to-hand), everything goes, "who could beat who's ass" is a more realistic challenge - one that i think has been covered, oh, a few times.
now, i'm an icarium fan. i want him to smash the crap out of a lot of your favorites out there. people say he won't be able to maintain his rage against some of the bigger players. i haven't seen any indication that he has to (or can) consciously "start, maintain, or end" anything. it's not under his control. it's not like he's flexing! quick ben hit him with everything he had over and over and icarium's power hulked-up until he was pushing through it. i think our very rational bad-asses (rake [who is awesome] being the top of that group) would have removed icarium from the world if they could do it easily, regardless of their pity. he's a time-bomb not under their control and they wouldn't let that hang around if they could take it out. and yes, karsa KTFO'd icarium. had mappo not intervened, i'm not sure icarium's magic would have allowed karsa to kill him while unconscious. i think mappo knew this. i'd bet the "rage" would manifest to protect him. otherwise, someone would have surprised him long ago (that boy is OLD!), knocked him out pre-rage and killed him. and karsa only attacked icarium because he was still "kill the children" karsa who was ignorant of virtually everything. he would have attacked rake or dassem just as quickly at that point (even though he exhibits respect/awe/a bit of fear? later when seeing those two fight).
the tragic hero appeals to me so icarium's my boy. (check out
Cain in Stover's "Heroes Die" et al- brilliant).
bottom line, i read it my way, you read it your way...but my guy kicks your guy's ass every time (unless SE specifically decides otherwise
)
This post has been edited by Viandaran: 15 December 2008 - 05:40 PM