Rake, Dassem, and Draconus

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Rake, Dassem, and Draconus The similarities...

#1 Lisheo

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 08:05 PM

Right... Rake is a reluctant ascendant/God who renounced his former position and broke away from his Mother, gained new powers, and killed Draconus

Spoiler

with the sword Grief, to get Dragnipur. While Envy watched after orchestrating it.

Dassem is a reluctant ascendant/god/something who renounced his former title and people and seemed to gain more power from it, becoming the Lord of Sorrow. He then killed Rake, the Champion of Darkness, with the sword Grief, to get at Dragnipur, while his companions (Shadow House) watched after orchestrating it.

Anyone see the similarities? :thumbsup:

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#2 Trotts

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 11:24 PM

The world is really full of patterns isnt it.

#3 Silencer

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 11:33 PM

Uh-uh. Rake can't have used Grief to kill Draconus. Because Draconus ended up in Dragnipur. Unless Drac did the same thing as Rake (seriously doubt it), Rake must have used Dragnipur to kill Draconus.

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#4 Sindriss

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 11:35 PM

Ye well, he didn't really go for dragnipur, he just wanted the person inside it :thumbsup:

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#5 Lisheo

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 11:56 PM

Silencer, on Nov 29 2008, 11:33 PM, said:

Grief was a weapon that was considered unbeatable in the right hands, ie a person with singular will :thumbsup:

and its not like Draconus is going to leave Dragnipur lying around, in TtH we see Burn can't bear its weight. I reckon Rake disarmed Draconus then killed him with Dragnipur.

#6 Giles

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 10:57 PM

To be honest we dont know that Draconus didnt do a similar move to Rake as we know that he already knew he would end up in the sword, and I reckon he should have known that Rake would be a worthy person to wield the sword while he was trapped. And we have seen numerous hints that the Elder gods Orchestrated their current positions more than is obvious.

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#7 Grief

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 11:06 PM

I dont think Draconus did what Rake did.
I remember comments like "I hated him at first, but learned to live with it" and things like that.
Pretty sure he didnt want to end up in there.

Cougar said:

Grief, FFS will you do something with your sig, it's bloody awful

worry said:

Grief is right (until we abolish capitalism).

#8 Giles

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 11:15 PM

That may be true, but I think once he realised he wouldnt beat Rake or that was a worthy holder of dragnipur he would rather go into Dragnipur than die, especially as he knew he was going to end up in there.

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#9 Ain't_It_Just_

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 06:55 AM

Speaking of which, where do things stand between Rake and Draconus now? True, Rake is somewhere else (Darkness? I dunno) but do you suppose they've buried the hatchet?

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#10 Sinisdar Toste

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 07:51 AM

well if draconus' thoughts as rake is sacrificing himself are anything to go by then i'd say the hatchet is at least six feet under

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#11 caladanbrood

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 03:45 PM

I don't think it's relevant. Rake, in Itkovian's immortal words, is done. For good :thumbsup:

This post has been edited by caladanbrood: 01 December 2008 - 03:46 PM

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#12 Jude

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 06:24 PM

Even if it isn't relevant I'm sure things were good between the two of them at the end. For sure for sure for sure Drac respects the shit out of rake, and rake, knowing this, if he were still around, would be cool with Drac at this point.

#13 Ursus

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 06:55 PM

I don't find it at all improbable that Draconus 'did a Rake'. He had Kallor's curse hanging over him and i would be much surprised if he didn't plan ahead. Draconus might not like it but he would not have left his own end and the fate of Dragnipur to chance.

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'I shall break you. Each of you. I swear this upon the bones of seven million sacrifices. K'rul, you shall fade from the world, you shall be forgotten. Draconus, what you create shall be turned upon you.And as for you, woman, unhuman hands shall tear your body to into pieces, upon a field of battle, yet you shall know no respite - thus, my curse upon you, Sister of Cold Nights. Kallor Eiderann Tes'thesula, one voice, has spoken three curses. Thus.'

...

Quote

The three stood at the portal of the nascent, lifeless realm, and looked long upon their handiwork.
Then Draconus spoke, 'Since the time of All Darkness, i have been forging a sword.'
Both K'rul and the Sister of Cold Nights turned at this, for they had known nothing of it.
Draconus continued. 'The forging has taken... a long time, but I am now nearing completion. the power invested within the sword possesses a... a finalty.'
'Then,' K'rul whispered after a moment's hesitation 'you must make alterations in the final shaping.'
'So it seems. I shall think long and hard on this.'

This post has been edited by Ursus: 01 December 2008 - 06:59 PM

#14 Salt-Man Z

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 05:20 PM

Niiice.

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#15 Sinisdar Toste

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 09:51 PM

the MoI prologue was i think probably the first time i actually felt the bottom drop out on me concerning this series. the way he rights the ancient scenes is flawless. makes the backbone of the actual events in the books so much stronger

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 02 December 2008 - 09:52 PM

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#16 Epiph

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 01:10 AM

Ursus, on Dec 1 2008, 12:55 PM, said:

On the other hand, the RotCG prologue indicates that Drac did not, at all, respect Rake. He may have made plans...but they may have been upset by Envy and Rake.

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#17 Aptorian

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 04:27 AM

There is something like 300.000 or more between the events of the RCG prologue and the fall of the crippled god, then again a hundred thousand years between the events of the fall where Draconus was cursed and the breaking of Dragnipur.

I think Draconus had time to grow to respect, if nothing else, the power and skill of Rake before he was put in the sword. And he had another hundred thousand years to think where he went wrong.

#18 Epiph

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 05:11 AM

Aptorian, on Dec 2 2008, 10:27 PM, said:

Fair enough, but Drac's POVs still indicate to me that it was not his choice to give Dragnipur to Rake. And the only thing the quotes from the Kallor episode indicate for me is that Drac decided to make it possible to destroy the sword, or get out of it. He certainly didn't expect Rake to show up and do his thing.

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#19 BeLeG

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 11:11 AM

Apsalara seems to think that only Rake is strong enough(mentaly) to give up the sword

#20 Aptorian

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 06:11 PM

Oh, I agree that there was no such trickery in the fight, dare I say battle, between Rake and Draconus. Somebody evens claims that the fight took three days, even though I have yet to see such a quote.

The change in the sword was obviously something regarding the nature of the sword, be it the strength or the finality of being killed with it.