[Tennes]

Well, looks like we're not going to get much from the Americans among us tomorrow. Up to the rest to make up for it, I suppose.

[Kaschan]

@ Fener I have the same issue. I might be able to get on a couple of times. But it will likely only be for a few minutes also. Enjoy the football and turkey.

Later.


Edited to add @ Fener

This post has been edited by Kaschan: 27 November 2008 - 04:06 AM

[Kaschan]

Tennes, on Nov 27 2008, 12:02 AM, said:

Well, looks like we're not going to get much from the Americans among us tomorrow. Up to the rest to make up for it, I suppose.

Lynch us while we are gone are you Don't deny that the thought crossed your mind.

[Gamelon]

Apologies to Tennes, it was indeed Kaschan making the strange posts I was talking about.

As for Lisheo, I'll wait before I apologize. I couldn't help to be tickled by how he kept saying "I will CF inno" instead of "I am inno", which might be telling.

Still even then, what we want to lynch is killers, so I'm not too proud

This post has been edited by Gamelon: 27 November 2008 - 07:49 AM

[Path-Shaper]

After the day's confusion everyone retires to the local dive. Some as still covered in various bits of Rashan, and most smell of the swamp. A few rounds of the piss-water they have on tap are order and things suddenly seem bearable. A couple of monkeys are doing something obscene to a scrap piece of leather that looks suspiciously sports related.

The door bursts in, showering the patrons with shards of wood. A troop of incredibly well dressed people wearing opera masks march in, waving not-costume looking swords. The monkeys scamper into the ceiling, taking their prize with them.

"Another mob? Oh God." sighs one of the patrons.

"Where are they!", one of the people in opera gear sings.
"Dude if you know, tell us please, we been looking for two days now." replies a patron.
"No you fools! We're talking about those supporters of the upstart Jiancus" comes an answer from the chorus.
"Jiancus?"
"Jiancus - the new tenor from the round. Everyone knows his skills cannot possibly compare to Bellario and we're here to prove it"
"How are you going to do that?"
"By beating the crap out of them of course. It's what we do-do-dowhaap"
"Dammit Kevin, we're militant opera supporters - NO accapello!"

The intruders start to argue amongst themselves. Just then the windows burst in, more people in opera gear rolling across the floor.

"Die you sons of Bellario bitches!"
"Go to hell Jiancus scum!"

A massive row ensues, with the patrons hiding under the table for most of it. Viking helmets go flying, battle aria's are sung and various wigs and lacy bits go all over the place, most stained by blood. Eventually a fat lady sings, then keels over.

Everyone crawls out from under the tables dusting themselves off and stepping gingerly between the corpses. Looking around, someone is missing. A quick search reveals a grisly sight - A decapitated body lying under one of the tables. A monkey lands on the table, placing the severed head in the centre with a grin. It makes a remarkably human and very rude gesture, then jumps out the window.

Tennes (sir Thursday) is dead - He was inno


It's day 3. There's 36 hours left of the day

8 players remain:
Thyrllan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Liosan, Gamelon, Fener, Silanah

5 votes needed to lynch
4 votes needed to go to night

Players who have not voted:
Thyrllan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Liosan, Gamelon, Fener, Silanah

[Silanah]

Liosan, on Nov 26 2008, 07:18 PM, said:

In fact:

remove vote
vote tennes

Because much as i'd like to get rid of rashan, im starting to doubt, and Tennes has struck me as scummy recently, as has D'riss.

Liosan, on Nov 26 2008, 07:48 PM, said:

D'riss if you see earlier, I refused to consider low posters.

1. They dont deserve to win by doing that. They can fucking play like everyone else, or I dont know why they play at all.
2. It is hit and miss. There just isnt enough to go on, properly.

As for why I find you and Tennes suspicious:

Both of you:

Pushed a lynch onto me(not scummy in itself).
You then went on to hint that going for Rashan, if I come up innocent, is good.
Its basically like setting up the rest of the game, and trying to make certain of who gets lynched. Its suspicious, as you're planning ahead.
Youre saying go for one, if hes inno(and if you're killers, you'll know I am) then go for the other. SInce you'd know I'd come up inno, you could then push a Rashan lynch, having already planted the seeds that its a good idea.

Keep calling me a symp.
Now, this basically gives you a way out, if pulled up on voting, to say "look, he was probably a symp anyhow", which also makes people consider a better scenario.

i think it best to meet this attempt straight on. the night kill seems like a very obvious attempt to incriminate liosan and driss in my eyes. I was actually expecting fener to bite the dust, but hopefully my case against kaschan made that night kill too obvious. if you see ehre liosan attacks driss and tennes last night when they pushed a lynch toward him, now we know that rashan came back inno (but as gamelon says we cant be sure if he was a symp or not, personally the symp routine throughout the game could be telling but i always play worst case). Atthe time many were getting riled up and i cant find the quote buit i think it was tennes who said they were going to lynch liosan today and now this night kill is like an added boost behind that conviction.

I am sticking by my convictions though, i think this was a blatant attempt to get a speed lynch on liosan today, and personally my list has shrunk today. In my mind, and obviously it will be different for the rest of you, but i am goign to remove from my immeadiate threat list Liosan, driss, fener and thyrllan. This isnt to say i think any of these players are CI, far fromit, but we need to hit scum today and i think by the way they reacted to rashan, and other factors i wouldnt be confident of finding a killer int his group today and cant risk lynching one of them.

that leaves me korlat, gamelon and kaschan as possibles for todays lynch.

i made a case against kaschan last night and out of the three he is a low poster who strikes me as scummy. Inno role specualtion no matter how vague is cardinal sin territory for me.

vote kaschan

I made my case on kaschan

[Silanah]

I was right then, i am going to be here on my own all day

[Gamelon]

No, I'm here, one second I didn't read the scene

[Gamelon]

Hmm, Sil, you dismiss Liosan and D'riss as suspects just because of the night kill?

That's tricky and borderline incompetent.

[Silanah]

I didnt dismiss them, but i have said a few times that i think liosan is innocent, and i also said thyr and driss were grouped with rashan and i would put them aside for today if he came back inno. the fact is i think we need today to hit a killer or a symp (we will know if we have done so because the game wont end) and those three and fener are the players i think least likely to get us a killer today. it could be they just latched on to rashan, but for the moment i dotn have enough info to go for them and i am fairly confident at least one or possibly two of the second grouping are evil, whether killers or symps i am not sure. Kaschan is possibly a symp, for my signalling case its the only role that realistically makes sense as a kilelr wouldnt need to, and an inno just has no reason to talk about another innos role.

If we make it through to tomorrow we have done something right though and then everyone opens up again as its likely we have (if we hit scum) only one player we need to remove.

I am playign to win, Gamelon, and i am sorry but you three look like the most possible today, though korlat is hard to read and you and i despite early misgivings agree on many points therefore coupled with my previous case, kaschan is my vote.

[Gamelon]

By the way, I had time to do a re-read of the Liosan ninja stunt, and I have to say it doesn't compute. I can't understand why an inno would think that's a smart idea, and I can't understand what would have pushed a scum to act like this at the time.

Liosan had a vote on Shadow, and so did Anomander. Anomander was arguing with Shadow and Rashan, none of which were killers. His comment during the ninja was "please shut up Anomander!", while what Ano was doing was fighting against the one Liosan wanted lynched at the time.

This was absolutely retarded, I can't wait to see what PMs he sent at the time to SH. But still, if it was scum activity I fail to see what it was.


One post that caught my eye during that reread is this one:

D'riss, on Nov 24 2008, 10:27 PM, said:

remove vote
Vote Liosan

if he's dead it doesn't matter, if he's lying to us, he deserves to die.

EDIT: cross-post with the mod
vote stays tho

He was quickly followed by Rashan after that. Now, I undestand that shit is annoying, but before you put a vote you should ask yourself is it is scummy. In a game, nobody "deserves to die" because of something annoying. It looked like a forced push to get a lynch on what he thought would become an easy target for the day 1 lynch, as it usually takes little.

Add to this that I still never found myself nodding at anything D'riss said during the game. He's always around, commenting, but never daring anything or exploring options. Yesterday he didn't do much except complaining whenever anyone was connecting him anyone else, correcting vote counts (showing he's following very intently despite the laid-back attitude) and putting Rashan at L-1 for being "overdramatic"

And posts like this:

D'riss, on Nov 26 2008, 07:28 PM, said:

ok, I see no reason for Liosan's hysteria that would be valid.

I'm tempted to vote him now. really tempted
Kas: no offence, but your Thyr vote won't get you anywhere tonight. seems we're choosing between Liosan and Rashan
voting off a symp goes agains most everyhting I stand for in mafia... but aside from his assault on Rash and Silanah, I can't for the life of me remeber him talkiing to anyone else in a way that might constitute "symping"

With 10 hours left in the day and nobody having more than two votes show that he's trying to create an (absent) situation since he likes it a lot. He keeps repeating it:

D'riss, on Nov 26 2008, 10:54 PM, said:

Korlat, there's still some (though allegedly, not that much) time in the day, and we can still dredge up something, maybe.

I am not liking the vote distribution much atm, btw.

moving on a bit:
Kas' excuse strikes me as just plain weird--did he not read the entire last day?
it's crystal clear to me that either Losan or Rashan are up for the chop today, yet he chooses to keep a vote on Thyr, and tlls us he may not be back till after deadline. What is up with that?

For now I'll

vote D'riss

But I'm open to discussions

[Gamelon]

Silanah, on Nov 27 2008, 11:09 AM, said:

I am playign to win, Gamelon, and i am sorry but you three look like the most possible today, though korlat is hard to read and you and i despite early misgivings agree on many points therefore coupled with my previous case, kaschan is my vote.

Stop being whiny and excuse yourself all the time. This is meta, but it makes my skin crawl coming from you. Early in the game I thought you were playing way too safe/friendly to be innocent, and that was before I alt-guessed you.


When did I say I had a problem with your vote on Kaschan? I agree with you that he sounds scummy specially if he is the one making the strange posts I noted yesterday in my quick catch-up, and not Tennes. There's a few other things he said I should come back to because the first time around I let them slide thinking he was our new player Sir Tuesday, now I see why meta is dangerous

I just found it strange you innocented D'riss from the night kill when I had intentions of making a case on him.

[Gamelon]

From the living players, the only one I'm having good vibes from is Fener, at least I never said "what??" reading one of his posts.

I disapprove with Liosan's behavior, but unless there was something happening day 1 that I missed twice, I can't figure out why a scum would pull his stunt. With the CF on the involved players that we had since, scum team., whoever they are, was safe at the time, and getting everyone's eyes on you had absolutely no point.

Silanah is behaving like he's playing with his girlfriend, mother-in-law and grandmother watching him. I don't know what to say about that.

Did Thyrllan post yesterday? I can't remember, but I hope he won't get modkilled because that would probably mean he's inno, and that might lose us the game.

I would put the killers in the Kaschan-D'riss-Korlat trio right now.

[Silanah]

Gamelon, on Nov 27 2008, 10:23 AM, said:

Silanah, on Nov 27 2008, 11:09 AM, said:

I am playign to win, Gamelon, and i am sorry but you three look like the most possible today, though korlat is hard to read and you and i despite early misgivings agree on many points therefore coupled with my previous case, kaschan is my vote.

Stop being whiny and excuse yourself all the time. This is meta, but it makes my skin crawl coming from you. Early in the game I thought you were playing way too safe/friendly to be innocent, and that was before I alt-guessed you.


When did I say I had a problem with your vote on Kaschan? I agree with you that he sounds scummy specially if he is the one making the strange posts I noted yesterday in my quick catch-up, and not Tennes. There's a few other things he said I should come back to because the first time around I let them slide thinking he was our new player Sir Tuesday, now I see why meta is dangerous

I just found it strange you innocented D'riss from the night kill when I had intentions of making a case on him.

i am not making driss innocent - i just narrowed down the field for todays lynch by what happened yesterday. Driss and thyr both defended rashan and went for liosan without reason. Rashan eventually got voted off but the train could have run very early and there was hesitation from both those players which stalled it and allowed for the large mess that happened with liosan self voting and kaschan making queries.

For today i think that i need to look at those two and you for th ebest bet to stave off losing. You are in that grouping so i doubt you would agree, but no matter what happened with liosan, i still cant agree to voting him off. the reasoning is in part justified to do so, but it seems too risky a maneouvre for day 1 scum. If a good case is made on one of those four i will cosnider moving my vote, but i dont want to vote liosan, and in my mind rashan was closely linked with driss and thyr, by their actions and by other players.

if rashan was a symp - could see them two being killers though, hmmm, but then its the situation of a master defending the symp. If mrogo has allowed the kilelrs to know their symps i will be fucking raging

[Silanah]

anyone having difficulties getting to the site? had a few page cannot be displayeds there the last twenty minutes?

[Silanah]

Gamelon, on Nov 27 2008, 10:32 AM, said:

Silanah is behaving like he's playing with his girlfriend, mother-in-law and grandmother watching him. I don't know what to say about that.

this is actually so true its very funny when i play at home the woman is always sitting over my shoulder it makes me very nervous, last night she kept trying to sneak on and post as me when i wasnt at the pc, the little minx.

edited to add - do you see how bored i am now!!! where is everyone??

This post has been edited by Silanah: 27 November 2008 - 11:39 AM

[Gamelon]

I'm here, what do you think of my musings on D'riss?

[Silanah]

well the vote on liosan is understandable because fake revealing is a generally accept scum tactic. I disliek though how he was trying to get players to change votes though, if you build a case and convince people then fair enough, rubbishing votes because they wont go anywhere is just bad play. If your case was strong enough the player will vote. Also if that situation arose now i would question kaschans reasoning for avoiding both likely trains, not beat around the bush saying if he wanted ot be on a 'winning train' that rashan was teh best bet. its nto an election, we dont campgain for votes we fight for them with logic and gut.

The sad fact in he was possibly right not to want to vote for rashan, and he is questioning kaschan. this was why i am so polarised with the groups, they seemed to have formed up. You can see that he seems to be defending thyrllan when kas votes for him, and lumping kas and korlat together. He did eventually vote for rashan, but was hesitant to do so.

Not sure, gamelon, i cant be certain and dont feel very confident about it. If we lynched hima nd he came up guilty, thyrllan would be my bet for partner and rashan their symp, perhaps his day 1, i am your symp talk was genuine and they accepted it, which would mean morgo hadnt let them know but they just accepted the first symp admission going. On the other hand if kaschan is scum and we lynch driss the day could end with us losing and driss had questioned him and he was top of my list.

Like you i have fener as PI.

liosan i dont want to risk voting for because if we are wrong it could pick up steam given the animosity and then the kilelrs could jump in with little reaosning, so even if we have got the symp it will tells us very little and possibly cost us the game.

thyrllan and driss are insperable in my mind and the case on both is in the medium range.

korlat - still hasnt really got involved, with ST being tennes i dont know what to make of it, but he is always on when no one else is, so it could just be time zones accoutning for inactivity, only i post to myself all the time.

gamelon - you tend to agree with lots of things i say, you were bang on with my case on rashan, so in terms of the game as it goes i think you are probably another inno. except i really dont trust anyone so agreeable, and you could easily be using my aggression and following my cases much like tennes did with everyones. Not necessarily scummy which is why out of my possible lynch group i had you in last.

Right then, if you discoutn the evidence from rashans cf, assuming he was symp and his masters spotted him or assuemd they had then the possible lynches go from kaschan korlat and gamelon, to kaschan, driss and thyrllan.

Personally i think kaschan is well out in front for me as his behaviour is scummy and i dont need to make any assumptions to believe that. What do you think?

[Path-Shaper]

It's day 3. There's 31 hours and 27 minutes left of the day

8 players remain:
Thyrllan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Liosan, Gamelon, Fener, Silanah

5 votes needed to lynch
4 votes needed to go to night

1 vote for Kaschan (Silanah)
1 vote for D'riss (Gamelon)

Players who have not voted:
Thyrllan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Liosan, Fener

[Silanah]

right i am bored so extendign my kaschan case to include his ignoring my questions about his speculation.

Silanah, on Nov 26 2008, 10:11 PM, said:

back on before bed, in short i am not changing my vote. I already expplained my case on rahsan and my reasoning behind it.

As for whats happened so far this evening, i cant for the life of me figure out what liosan was doing voting for himself, but sadly we have many players now drawing lines in the sand. Much as i enjoy everyone taking part, i wish we werent so bloody divided, whatever way you look at it, having everyone suspecting different players with all strong points backing it up is aiding the killers. I am not saying we shouldnt make cases far from it, i am just worried by how many have suddenly sprung up

I mean if today goes as it seems, rashan or liosan are probably going to be lynched and tomorrow we have plenty of people on lists of suspects. When i left everything seemed so black and white. What adifference a few hours make.

@kaschan - out of everyone who posted while i was gone you annoyed me the most, i dont know what you were trying to imply, but if fener did know that anomander was roled, and anomander was innocent there was only one possible role he could have had and you drew attention to it. i cant help thinging, that bringing it up in thread was an attempt to signal a roled player to the killers. Innos when they get any hint at a role should never bring it up unless its evil. period.

in the underline section i highlight hte problem as i seen it.

Silanah, on Nov 26 2008, 10:52 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Nov 26 2008, 08:10 PM, said:

Fener, on Nov 26 2008, 04:00 PM, said:

A Few things here on Liosan, not as much as I would have liked. He really doesn't direct the votes any one way.. just kind of diffuses them... anyway here they are

Liosan, on Nov 25 2008, 01:39 PM, said:

Since Rashan is refusing to defend, dont suppose you could say you're reasons sil, as you're guilty of the same thing, although to a lesser degree, it seemed to me.

Also, yeah, the ano death wasnt the most surprising death ever. The killers will want to keep people in, especially innos, who stir up confusion, not people who people are calling likely innocent, and who isnt being unhelpful or anything.

this looked like a possible hint to the killers. I hate when ppl state what the killers want to do. gives them ideas they might not have had ( though I am sure I am guilty of doing it at some point )

Liosan, on Nov 25 2008, 01:53 PM, said:

Feners kinda starting to contribute.
Although you could say hes deliberately doing it, due to the pressure on low posters. Argh, the confusion.

Ive g2g soon anyway.

Ive decided that I dont want to lynch a low poster.
Not yet anyway.

If you're not going to contribute, then its almost impossible to judge you, and therefore, its just chance to find the killer.
Therefore, if you're not going to actually play the game, you may as well be treated as such.
If you're not going to play the game, it will just be chance we pick the right one.
If people think that this is how they want to win, fine, but if you win without playing, you dont deserve it.
So im going to play with the people who are playing.
And the people who are not, dont really deserve to win, and unless they start contrbuting there is hardly point in them playing.

I am in two minds.

I feel they deserve lynched.
I also think that doing so stops us, the ones who are actually trying, from playing, and so is a waste of time and enjoyment.

This bugged me. He is basically disregarding like 4-5 people playing this game because they are low posters. I can't speak for anyone else, but I play this game to a) have fun and to win (which really makes it fun ) Whether you like it or not, killers can play however they want, including laying low. Whether they deserve to win is irrelevant. If I ever get to play a killer I sure as hell am going to do everything in my power to win... right? If that means I lay low and let the spammers of the world draw attention to themselves then so be it. at the end of the day I go home with the win. I can see how, they might not get the most satisfaction out of the win as opposed to just running the show and playing the inno's for fools. but a win is a win is a win and to disregard these low posters because they don't play the way you would is asking for a loss, and I hate to play to lose. By saying that he is disregarding these players, whether intentional or not is symping a low laying killer. If you are inno, I would call you an innosymp

Liosan, on Nov 25 2008, 02:02 PM, said:

Also, Silanah, I thought you're objection wasnt to being in the spotlight.
I thought it was that you two were only discussing each other in the spotlight.
There's quite a difference.

I am happy that you are looking at other people.
I just dont want everyone else to look at just other people, and forget you, both must be looked at.

I also hate people refusing to defend themselves.

Oh, and Rashan, who's voting Kaschan?

This seems like more drawing of attention away from low poster talk and back to the 2 alphas at the time. it really looks fishy, they never said they were going away, just that they were taking a break.... you know Sil... do you really think he is going to let people forget that Rash is his number 1 target?? Why not look elsewhere for the time being?

Liosan, on Nov 25 2008, 02:31 PM, said:

Oh, and im not going on post count.
Call me old fashioned, but I base my suspicions on who I find most suspicious.
Not, who's posted how much.

Yes, exactly Rashan.
You've been "pulled into the spotlight".

After all the fuss I made, itd be a bit obvious of the two of you to stop contributing anyway.
As for not getting into that debate yourself, fine whatever.
But discouraging others from debating you and someone else. That just looks scummy.

Or is continuing to bring the same thing up over and over again scummy? Also he brings up again the fact that he woun't vote people based on vote count.... the only way to get non posters to talk is to threaten a lynch. (unless rl really does step in, see Kasch)

Liosan, on Nov 25 2008, 02:39 PM, said:

We shouldnt ignore anyone. At all. Unless they are 100% CI.
Its just stupid.
We must look at everyone.
And Im gonna have to go to bed shortly.

And then he says this.... We shouldn't ignore anyone. really??? Before you stated that you were discounting all the low posters.


This combined with the lack of thought with the fake ninja claim which basically got a roled inno killed.. its hard not to see you as scum.

Uhhhh how do we know that Ano was a roled innocent. Was there a reveal that I missed If so could some one point me in its direction.

Kaschan, on Nov 26 2008, 08:24 PM, said:

Fener, on Nov 26 2008, 04:15 PM, said:

@ Kasch I assume she was roled based on the "You're a fucking idiot" comment by Gemomandaris. Thats the same reaction I would have had if I was a guard or vig. Regardless, it got an inno player killed.

That would have been my reply regardless of whether I was roled or not.

thse two posts in particular caught my eye. we know anomandaris was inno and have no way of knowing if she was roled or not. fener posted that liosan got a roled inno killed but no one brought it up, but i certainly thought - i hope they werent lovers or we are fucked and it lowered fener down my list. I didnt bring it up and the day passed on, but kaschan deliberately brought it up twice explaining why he brought it up. I cant help think he is pointing out a roled inno to his masters, if he was killer he could just pm. In my eyes there is no excuse for even hinting toward soemthing about a possible inno role, even if it is lovers when one has died.

The fact is fener is probbaly not roled, but drawing attention to this post is a deliberate attempt to imply he is. I can tsee it any other wya, killers dont get some role cf as far as i remeber? so why would you bring attention to it.

fuck the more i write about this the more i am tempted to change my vote

clarify the case as people asked what i was talking about and below we have kaschans response.

Kaschan, on Nov 27 2008, 03:48 AM, said:

Just going over what happened while I was gone. Looks like a serious cluster fuck. I am about to go to bed so really no time to talk.

Night.

says he is going to bed.

Kaschan, on Nov 27 2008, 04:04 AM, said:

@ Fener I have the same issue. I might be able to get on a couple of times. But it will likely only be for a few minutes also. Enjoy the football and turkey.

Later.


Edited to add @ Fener

twenty minutes later and he posts again ignoring my case totally. doesnt even mention that i was asking about stuff though its clear from the first post he read the situation around night.

Kaschan, on Nov 27 2008, 04:05 AM, said:

Tennes, on Nov 27 2008, 12:02 AM, said:

Well, looks like we're not going to get much from the Americans among us tomorrow. Up to the rest to make up for it, I suppose.

Lynch us while we are gone are you Don't deny that the thought crossed your mind.

Now he is saying he will be gone for the day so he wont come back and answer my queries.