[D'riss]

lol
well it worked with Kaschan and Fener...
can't work every time, I guess,

[Gamelon]

Well, I came back late and took a bit of time to catch up. Sadly, it's past my beddy time so I'll be brief.

I personally think Rashan is scum, for the reasons I explained (not too smartly, but he got to me with his posts at the time) during the night.

And about his answer to my "Liosan might be scum, no wait he's VPI, actually you're right he may be scum, I said it first, wink wink" moment I didn' like:

 Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 06:01 PM, said:

When I suggested that Liosan was drawing attention from Ano, it was before he had explained he was fishing for a reaction. Hell, it could even have been before PS disregarded his "Ninja", I can't remember.
When he explained why, I did change my mind to consider the possibility that he was more likely inno than not. If he was a killer, that was a risky move, and a symp and killer couldn't have planned it so perfectly. Ano would probably have given something away.
Then again, I could be wrong.
When the idea of Lios being scum helping Ano came up again, I merely dredged up the fact I had considered it. I don't see what's so scummy here. I don't think he's a Almost Confirmed Inno, I think he's a Possible Inno.

So let's see what Rashan is saying to explain his discrepancies:

He suggested that Liosan and Ano might be scum before the explainations, even before PS disregarded the Ninja. WTF? Before the reactions and the facts that PS disregarded the ninja, why would you think Liosan is scum? If he's ninja, he can't be scum, no? If anything, it's AFTER the reactions and the disregard by PS that the suspicions should have started - they sure did for me!

As for considering Ano VPI or PI whatever because a killer would have given something away, how many times do we see killers say "Ah, Dang, you got me bastards" after they die? Anyways, I'm not arguing the ACI/PI/VPI (or whatever other gradations Rashan has in store) status of Anomander after this incident, just Rashan's "opinions" who basically match whatever opinions flies at the thread at the moment.

Anyways, I'm off for now, but will be back with tons of time left in the day.

[Tennes]

 Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 08:40 PM, said:

Do you see what I'm getting at, Tennes? IMO he should be lynched just for that, but we can't lynch him yet because we really can't afford to make another mistake.

Oh, I know what you mean about Thyrllan, he really hasn't done anything yet at all. But he is not the only person who has posted very little. There are plenty of other people to consider however - and I think the rest of them have at least tried to say something. (Or at least, when I posted my thoughts of them last night, Thyrllan was the only one completely devoid of any content). If Shadowbent hadn't gone all Hari-kari on us, we might have been able to get him to say something while it was still day 1...would have come in handy.

[Fener]

Ok here are my thoughts-

Rashan- I think is probably a symp he is doinf a really good job of muddying the waters, constantly fighting with Ano (CI) though he was a PI to me at the time of the fighting. He immediately switched to a Liosan vote after the fakey move, that is a sly move as no one can question it and his killer can likely safely vote there as well. And the big big thing for symp behavior is his absolute certainty that he will CF inno. He has brought it up more than once. JA pulled that crap in 32. He was the symp there, and Rashan is acting eerily similar. Of course you ask..who is he symping, not sure atm, though his "Fener seems inno" comment would point the finger at me, If I was a killer I would be pissed if my symp was so obvious. More likely a misdirection.

Korlat- Seems inno to me, he attacked shadow and even admitted to probably voting shadow come lynch time... but his story is consistent and the vote was more based on posting style than anything else.

Liosan- I am going to allow myself to VPI him for the time being. If he isn't dead in a few nights we will need to seriously consider offing him to rest the collective conscious. I just can't wrap my head around a killer taking that kind of Modkill risk.

Gamelon- He tends to think like me, so I am giving him the benifit of the doubt for now. Though....his posting style only changed to more active after being called out on Tennes post. (It could just be a coincidence/playing tim issue though)

Tennes- Initially tried to stop Wrestle Mania XXXI (Shadow vs. Rash) to try to find killers. If I was a killer I wouldn't want them to stop. So a point in his favor there. On post 174 he does go after Rash a bit which is also thinking like me. and I liked his list on the low posters. @ Tennes I didn't vote Kasch just because he was a low poster, it was a combination of three things: low post count, no substance, and gut feeling. Though I also have low post count, I try to have substance in my posts and my gut feeling on me is usually right

Silanah- I keep going back and forth on him, initially I thought scum, then I thoughtinno, now I am not sure. I don't think holding back is a good idea. He has good insight and usually gives me a different perspective on things which I find very helpful (though often frustrating )One big thing is that he was really giving it to shadow yesterday. Knowing Shadow is CI it makes me wonder..... I would encourage you to still post, just don't dominate

Thyr- He is my number 1 killer suspect. No posts what-so-ever 9 I think then after Anno comes up CI after having not posted forever he pops in to say.."Well that didn't help us as we knew the killers were going to do that anyway" did we??? I didn't. How did you? That is his only post of semi substance that I can see. Right now he is my #1

Kaschan- Same as yesterday Gut feeling, low poster, somewhat trying to get involved. I just have a bad feeling and seeing as he gives us nothing to go off of I would be willing to vote. I HATE getting to endgame and have it be : Thyr, Kasch, Me and Korlat. I mean really... wtf would you vote for??? Better to get them out early. I realize if he pops up inno I will be under some heavy pressure, but, bring it.

D'riss- Mor sympish feeling for me than killer. Has become a little more active lately. Was certain there was a Rash/Shadow connection which there wasn't. Most early posts revolve around a Rash/Shadow connection. One thing kind of fishy was that he followed Rash onto and then quickly off of the Liosan fakey move. pretty obvious but then you get into WIFOM.

One thing, In his list Rashan didn't mention Thyr, or Kash- Could be cause there is little to go on, but that is a good excuse to leave your killer of your list.


Thats all I have for now, just gave up my whole lunch break to type this out lol. Let m eknow what you think

[Liosan]

 Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

It's not the discussion that's the problem, it's the fact that most players seem happy
to simply watch the whole thing unfold and not post anything constructive. Read over the thread. The argument I, Shadow, Ano and Silanah had took up the entire thread for a number of pages. I'm not saying I won't discuss things. I'm saying I won't focus on Silanah. I'm perfectly open to making cases on other players, in fact.
And mate? Oh no, heavens no, a term used between two people who know who each other outside of their alts? Christ, we must be scum. Just like me and Bent were scum for being somewhat courteous to each other and defending each other.
Edit: bloody crosspost

Thats exactly what you and sil are saying you're gonna do though, sit back. Yes they shouldnt. Neither should you.

 Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:29 PM, said:

Oh, and for the record Liosan, being dragged out into the open is bad when its for foundless reasons other than to discuss players who have already been discussed to death. You're really being antagonistic here, putting a sinister slant on absolutely everything, and doing your very best to pull me into an argument. Which will serve absolutely no point. Except to muddy the waters again, and waste valuable time which could be used on other cases.
*cough*symp behaviour*cough*

And this post is basically stating thats its now "scummy" to look at you and silanah. When the fuck did you two become CI. If you've been discussed before, its generally because you've been suspicious before.
Are you saying to discuss someone thats already been discussed, for completely different reasons, is now "scummy" aswell.
Its basically just saying:

Even though you have completely no reason to trust me or silanah, its pointless looking at us. In fact, its a scum tactic to discuss us any further.

[Rashan]

There's nothing to say about Thyrrlan, i brought him up a page ago, but I'll go over Kasch in a moment.

Edit: right Liosan, come up with all the evidence you want, I'm not gonna defend myself, if people want to lynch for it me so be it. I'm gonna concentrate on other players.

This post has been edited by Rashan: 25 November 2008 - 09:09 PM

[Fener]

 Liosan, on Nov 25 2008, 01:06 PM, said:

 Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

It's not the discussion that's the problem, it's the fact that most players seem happy
to simply watch the whole thing unfold and not post anything constructive. Read over the thread. The argument I, Shadow, Ano and Silanah had took up the entire thread for a number of pages. I'm not saying I won't discuss things. I'm saying I won't focus on Silanah. I'm perfectly open to making cases on other players, in fact.
And mate? Oh no, heavens no, a term used between two people who know who each other outside of their alts? Christ, we must be scum. Just like me and Bent were scum for being somewhat courteous to each other and defending each other.
Edit: bloody crosspost

Thats exactly what you and sil are saying you're gonna do though, sit back. Yes they shouldnt. Neither should you.

 Rashan, on Nov 25 2008, 10:29 PM, said:

Oh, and for the record Liosan, being dragged out into the open is bad when its for foundless reasons other than to discuss players who have already been discussed to death. You're really being antagonistic here, putting a sinister slant on absolutely everything, and doing your very best to pull me into an argument. Which will serve absolutely no point. Except to muddy the waters again, and waste valuable time which could be used on other cases.
*cough*symp behaviour*cough*

And this post is basically stating thats its now "scummy" to look at you and silanah. When the fuck did you two become CI. If you've been discussed before, its generally because you've been suspicious before.
Are you saying to discuss someone thats already been discussed, for completely different reasons, is now "scummy" aswell.
Its basically just saying:

Even though you have completely no reason to trust me or silanah, its pointless looking at us. In fact, its a scum tactic to discuss us any further.

I agree 100%

There is no reason to stop contributing.

This post has been edited by Fener: 25 November 2008 - 09:12 PM

[D'riss]

 Fener, on Nov 25 2008, 04:03 PM, said:

Ok here are my thoughts-

Rashan- I think is probably a symp he is doinf a really good job of muddying the waters, constantly fighting with Ano (CI) though he was a PI to me at the time of the fighting. He immediately switched to a Liosan vote after the fakey move, that is a sly move as no one can question it and his killer can likely safely vote there as well. And the big big thing for symp behavior is his absolute certainty that he will CF inno. He has brought it up more than once. JA pulled that crap in 32. He was the symp there, and Rashan is acting eerily similar. Of course you ask..who is he symping, not sure atm, though his "Fener seems inno" comment would point the finger at me, If I was a killer I would be pissed if my symp was so obvious. More likely a misdirection.

Korlat- Seems inno to me, he attacked shadow and even admitted to probably voting shadow come lynch time... but his story is consistent and the vote was more based on posting style than anything else.

Liosan- I am going to allow myself to VPI him for the time being. If he isn't dead in a few nights we will need to seriously consider offing him to rest the collective conscious. I just can't wrap my head around a killer taking that kind of Modkill risk.

Gamelon- He tends to think like me, so I am giving him the benifit of the doubt for now. Though....his posting style only changed to more active after being called out on Tennes post. (It could just be a coincidence/playing tim issue though)

Tennes- Initially tried to stop Wrestle Mania XXXI (Shadow vs. Rash) to try to find killers. If I was a killer I wouldn't want them to stop. So a point in his favor there. On post 174 he does go after Rash a bit which is also thinking like me. and I liked his list on the low posters. @ Tennes I didn't vote Kasch just because he was a low poster, it was a combination of three things: low post count, no substance, and gut feeling. Though I also have low post count, I try to have substance in my posts and my gut feeling on me is usually right

Silanah- I keep going back and forth on him, initially I thought scum, then I thoughtinno, now I am not sure. I don't think holding back is a good idea. He has good insight and usually gives me a different perspective on things which I find very helpful (though often frustrating )One big thing is that he was really giving it to shadow yesterday. Knowing Shadow is CI it makes me wonder..... I would encourage you to still post, just don't dominate

Thyr- He is my number 1 killer suspect. No posts what-so-ever 9 I think then after Anno comes up CI after having not posted forever he pops in to say.."Well that didn't help us as we knew the killers were going to do that anyway" did we??? I didn't. How did you? That is his only post of semi substance that I can see. Right now he is my #1

Kaschan- Same as yesterday Gut feeling, low poster, somewhat trying to get involved. I just have a bad feeling and seeing as he gives us nothing to go off of I would be willing to vote. I HATE getting to endgame and have it be : Thyr, Kasch, Me and Korlat. I mean really... wtf would you vote for??? Better to get them out early. I realize if he pops up inno I will be under some heavy pressure, but, bring it.

D'riss- Mor sympish feeling for me than killer. Has become a little more active lately. Was certain there was a Rash/Shadow connection which there wasn't. Most early posts revolve around a Rash/Shadow connection. One thing kind of fishy was that he followed Rash onto and then quickly off of the Liosan fakey move. pretty obvious but then you get into WIFOM.

One thing, In his list Rashan didn't mention Thyr, or Kash- Could be cause there is little to go on, but that is a good excuse to leave your killer of your list.


Thats all I have for now, just gave up my whole lunch break to type this out lol. Let m eknow what you think

for one thing, Rashan followed me on a Liosan train
it may make me look suspect, but I absolutely hate fake reveals a la khell (go ahead, guess away ), so it was an agro switch more than anyting. the fact that Rash followed me on it would piss me off were he my symp.
Thyr and Kash are both the kinds of players I hate--especially Thyr--out of his meager 9 posts, a third is either complaining that no one's around, or saying that he's catching up, but giving us nothing.
@ Tennes: I believe it's "Harakiri",
Fener, you outline a group of players that "think alike" : you, Tennes and Gamelon. while not scully in itself, it does raise my hackles a bit...

[Fener]

 D'riss, on Nov 25 2008, 01:11 PM, said:

for one thing, Rashan followed me on a Liosan train
it may make me look suspect, but I absolutely hate fake reveals a la khell (go ahead, guess away ), so it was an agro switch more than anyting. the fact that Rash followed me on it would piss me off were he my symp.
Thyr and Kash are both the kinds of players I hate--especially Thyr--out of his meager 9 posts, a third is either complaining that no one's around, or saying that he's catching up, but giving us nothing.
@ Tennes: I believe it's "Harakiri",
Fener, you outline a group of players that "think alike" : you, Tennes and Gamelon. while not scully in itself, it does raise my hackles a bit...

Well, I can;t help if they seem to think like me... I guess they could use it against, me like JA did to DKT in 32. but I'd like to think I could stick to the evidence if a case was presented, rather than just following them. It was just an observation

[Liosan]

I'm not gonna defend myself is a really nice way of making people doubt themselves, generally used when any defence you can think of will be shit, and therefore make people more likely to vote.

Why not defend? We have hours.
Surely there is a good, innocent, perfectly reasonable reason why you dont want you or silanah discussed further.

You go concentrate on other players.
Its a good thing to do, and who knows, build a decent enough case, and it may be very helpful, and everyone may lynch them, and they'll be a killer. Im happy to listen to any case you have.
Of course, I reckon you should still have time to put in a defence somewhere. If you can.

Tbh, I doubt any defence you have will be enough for me.
You seem to me, to have blatantly tried to stop people discussing you (or sil for that matter, hopefully defence there though), and called it scummy, etc, which to me just seems to scream scum.
Yes, we need to look at other people aswell.
That doesnt mean we shouldnt look at people already looked at.
You seem to be trying to convince everyone to ignore you. If you're innocent, and there isnt anything scummy about you, and everything you do has a reasonable explanation, why shouldnt they?

Rashan

[Korlat]

It's never good when there's not a lot to say on a player....

I agree with Fener, I really don't want to get down to a bunch of quiet people towards the end - so I can understand Sil and Rash's desire to pipe down a bit. But, guys, we need you! If you say something stupid, sure, you'll get lynched, but it's better than having a dead session before there is only quiet players left.

I'm going back to have a look over people - I'll get back to you on my thoughts, as I'm off to a friend's place later today.

[D'riss]

i'm not saying it make you inherently scum, but I just find such assertions this early in the game suspicious. There are usually very few people I dismiss as not being scum unless I have very good reasons.
The fact that like you they think that Rash is suspicious doesn't alleviate the possibility of them being scum, redirecting fire at the loud players.
not accusing you, but it's just what i'm thinking on the matter. Try not to discount all possibilities

EDIT; cross-post. @ Fener, obviously.

This post has been edited by D'riss: 25 November 2008 - 09:21 PM

[Rashan]

 Rashan, on Nov 24 2008, 10:58 AM, said:

 Shadow, on Nov 24 2008, 02:57 PM, said:

 Kaschan, on Nov 24 2008, 09:54 AM, said:

Ok I just caught up reading all of your wonderful spam...

Here is my suspect list so far

Thyrllan, Rashan, Anomandaris, D'riss, Kessobahn, Korlat, Liosan, Gamelon, Shadow, Tennes, Fener, Silanah


Obviously not myself as I am the definition of goodness

I demand that you remove my name from that list! I am the only confirmed inno on there! I am appalled!

Yes, Master, you are the very visage of innocence.

Jokes/Spam. Then I play symp for Shadow, he warns me not to symp him.

Quote

Attempting to symp me will just get you lynched scum

Actually kinda harsh reaction, thinking on it... Has he something to hide?

 Kaschan, on Nov 24 2008, 03:05 PM, said:

Uggg Go away Rash you are masturbating on the good rug. Jesus you are worse the a dog, humping everything in sight.

He changes from threats to joking/spam. Now, someone brought this up earlier, but what if he is a killer and really thinks I'm his symp?

 Kaschan, on Nov 24 2008, 03:06 PM, said:

 Tennes, on Nov 24 2008, 11:04 AM, said:

Well, I wake up to find you've all started without me. What happened to "Never leave a man behind" and all that, hmm?

That is the marines this is Mafia we like to leave people behind.

Spam.

 Kaschan, on Nov 24 2008, 04:55 PM, said:

 Rashan, on Nov 24 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

 Kaschan, on Nov 24 2008, 03:16 PM, said:

 Rashan, on Nov 24 2008, 11:11 AM, said:

 Kaschan, on Nov 24 2008, 03:10 PM, said:

By the way Rash did you every have that thing looked at. I don't think that it is suppose to be Hot yellow with piss oozing out

No, sir. I couldn't get around to getting you an appointment. I'm sorry sir. You'll have to make do with it as it is.

Fine bring it over here and I will cut it off. Other wise it might spread to that sweet sweet mouth of yours

Sir, I'm sorry, but I won't suck your slightly diseased penis. It's just not in my contract.

That's not what you were mumbling last night . Contract? You are my slave we have no contract Now get over here. I have the butchers knife sharp enough to split a hair.

More jokes. Getting too graphic lmao.

 Kaschan, on Nov 24 2008, 06:48 PM, said:

After looking over the posts again. I think that D'riss could be a symp. I also am getting a funny feeling from Tennes. It would be a good killer strategy to get two trains going on spammers while keep the pressure off of themselves and their symp. But I don't have enough evidence to warrant a vote at this point. It is just a feeling.

Gut feeling. Seems to be a kind of defence of me and ShadowBent, actually. Hmmm. No evidence behind it.

 Kaschan, on Nov 25 2008, 01:47 PM, said:

Well that looked a little intense there at the end. Sorry I missed it. I would have been tempted to have voted for Liosan just due to his fake ninja reveal. I never thought that either Shadow or Rashan were playing scummy. Spamming yes but playing scummy no. Hence the no vote.
The fact that Rashan was trying to symp everyone on the board was funny and I played along.

The best case scenario is that Kess was a symp. I don't expect the night kills to reveal much information. There are two many low posters (including myself) that could be hit.

Best case scenario is NEVER the one we go by.
More defence of me and Shadow, and my "symping". Comment on Liosan for fake reveal, repeating what people have already said.

 Kaschan, on Nov 25 2008, 08:09 PM, said:

Ok I am back. That wasn't a total surprise NK. I haven't been on much as I am very sick and can't seem to get out of bed very often.

Not a total surprise? I thought it was quite surprising, until I REALLY thought about it.

Gentlemen, I gave you a dodgy quiet alt who jumped at the idea of being symped at first but then settled quickly into it.
Comments?
Edit: from who jumped to into it.

This post has been edited by Rashan: 25 November 2008 - 09:27 PM

[Liosan]

Its possible, and quiet alts are irritating generally.
The best bit of evidence there is the symp thing, however, it goes two ways:

Its also possible for him to be a symp, knowing you're his master, thus the over-reacting, calling you scum, is a symp clue.
Although why you'd then go for him is beyond me.

I generally dislike quiet alts anyway.
Bloody pisses me off.
The worst thing is, I lean towards lynhcing them, because Id hate to lose to them.
However, if I lynch one, and lose to someone else, cause theyve pushed me into lynching a low poster, I feel stupid.

[D'riss]

there's just no way to please you, is there,

I could go for either of the low-posters. I'd certainly prefer them over Rashan, as I can (sort of) see where he's coming from. And we did generate some discussion on the other players as a result of a truce between him ad Silanah.
though it could have been two scum distancing,

[Rashan]

 Liosan, on Nov 25 2008, 09:30 PM, said:

Its possible, and quiet alts are irritating generally.
The best bit of evidence there is the symp thing, however, it goes two ways:

Its also possible for him to be a symp, knowing you're his master, thus the over-reacting, calling you scum, is a symp clue.
Although why you'd then go for him is beyond me.

I generally dislike quiet alts anyway.
Bloody pisses me off.
The worst thing is, I lean towards lynhcing them, because Id hate to lose to them.
However, if I lynch one, and lose to someone else, cause theyve pushed me into lynching a low poster, I feel stupid.

When I play, unless I'm playing a game like Heroes where it was sooo easy to get lost, I try to always play vocally, and I don't like losing to quiet players either. I've put all of Kaschan's posts up there. If people decide worthy case and we get some pressure on him, lets see what he says.
Vote Kaschan
Although I feel somewhat guilty voting him if he's sick.

[Liosan]

Please me?
This is fucking mafia, we're not here to please people.

We bulldoze in...

Yeah, you get the idea.

[Liosan]

Please me?
This is fucking mafia, we're not here to please people.

We bulldoze in...

Yeah, you get the idea.

[Liosan]

Delete please.
Seems im not a special malazn regular no more.

[Tennes]

Rashan said:

Gentlemen, I gave you a dodgy quiet alt.
Comments?

Your assessment chimes with my general impression, although personally I didn't think AnoGem biting the bullet was especially surprising - I've already stated my reasons for that, seems obvious to me.

I could definitely see him as a killer who has pegged you as his symp...or the other way round, to be honest. But I'm not going to give you any heat on that just at the moment, because you're doing what I requested.