[Ain't_It_Just_]

I remember reading in TtH:

Page 464:

Master Quell: I admit, it's starting to travel me, this method of travel. I think we're scarring the whole damn universe. We're making existence...bleed. Oh, just a seep here and there, admist whatever throbs of pain reality might possess. In any case, that's why there's no peaceful path, Gruntle. Denizens of every realm are driven to annhilate us."

So what do you make of this? Could this effectively be helping the CG? By tearing through the warrens, they are fraying them at the edges. And chaos is at the edges.

And who knows what else might become of this.

[cerveza_fiesta]

reminds me of a Star Trek episode where there are a few scientists trying to prove that spacecraft warping by the same locations multiple times is causing tears in the fabric of space. Each one is little, but they are building to something huge. They don't listen to the scientist so she goes in to one of the worse rifts and detonates her warp core. Ship gets sucked in, data saves the day etc etc.

I've been getting this feeling from the previous MBotF books that something bad is happening to the warren structure as a whole. Kind of like how global warming is set to annihalate all life on earth because everybody is abusing the environment slightly in their own way...though the collection of our abuses is significant. Could be that all this magery and warren-crossing is unraveling the fabric of space causing a warren-warming effect, which makes them more volatile the more they get used.

[Gozer]

There has been reference in previous books that the size of the object entering a warren effects the amount of damage caused to the warren (RofTCG, CofD i think). Just think how much damage would have been caused by all those moonspawns entering the Imperial Warren. RofTCG spoiler below.

Spoiler

Plus, when the ship in RofTCG went into the warren, it took all the power of loads of mages to make the gateway.

This shows how powerful the K'Chain Che'Malle must be to get all those floating fortresses in the warren.

[bwgan]

@CF ~ that is exactly what I thought when I read it...even down to the Star Trek episode . But isn't AIJ's point that the TG are especially guilty, because of how they travel through the warrens? I think this must have something to do with it, or are we saying any travel through the warrens damages them? If so wouldn't ....aargh, mind fog...thingy...the god who created them...Krul (old age is a curse you know.) realise this...at some point.

[Blend]

 bwgan, on Nov 14 2008, 03:02 PM, said:

@CF ~ that is exactly what I thought when I read it...even down to the Star Trek episode . But isn't AIJ's point that the TG are especially guilty, because of how they travel through the warrens? I think this must have something to do with it, or are we saying any travel through the warrens damages them? If so wouldn't ....aargh, mind fog...thingy...the god who created them...Krul (old age is a curse you know.) realise this...at some point.

I'm sure he knows what's going on, but has little to no power to stop it, or doesn't want to to stop it as he sees this as being the next step in the 'evolution' of Malaziworld!

[Aptorian]

There are natural entrance ways into warrens and then there's the violent entry, where the mage opens a hole into the warren. I think this most often occurs when the mage is using a warren that he isn't personally attuned to, or is hostile to outsiders.

The result we see when Kulp opened a pathway in Meanas in DG or when Quick goes warren hoping in RG.

[Jude]

That's funny that I thought of that Star Trek episode too. go figure... *glances at avatar* I have to agree with Apt more here though. I felt that the TTG were causing most of their damage because they didn't have an affinity for the warrens they would use for travel. So, just a quick question with that.. why don't the high mages just use their own warrens? Is it because you can only get to certain places by using certain warrens? Or is it because breaking into Mael's warren and having giant sea monsters chase you the whole time is more fun for the shareholders?

[Mcflury]

The TTG probably go through multiple warrens (even though their high mage doesn't have affinity with them) because I bet going through a warren basically is the same as following a certain path. The TTG doesn't like following paths. They cross the grass to get somewhere quicker.

I also think the way you travel through the warrens is quite decisive on how much you scar it. I remember Hairlock rushing through all warrens in GotM, shredding them to pieces or at least harming them a lot. I thought that was one of the main reasons the Hounds of Shadow were after him in the first place. But then you have the Claw who travel through the imperial warren, but that seems like a pretty harmless kind of travel.

Ah well, warren travelling is weird... and I doubt it's an exact science

[Aptorian]

I'm guessing that there's a difference between opening the warren and taping it and actually stepping inside. Warrens, from what I gather, aren't logical places that takes you easily from point A to B. We've seen both Quick Ben and Cowl sort of wander around before finding the right spot.

The Trygalle on the other hand seem to just go in a straight line, puncturing the warren and just hammering through where ever they chose.

[Excellence]

The bigger the portal, the more power needed to open and sustain it. Case in point, the transoceanic sojourn in Bonehunters needing boosting from Quick Ben.

Anyway, don't forget the Chaos warren lies inbetween the other warrens. Twisted and convoluted.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Quote

The TTG doesn't like following paths. They cross the grass to get somewhere quicker.

I recall someone not using a path and getting pwnt in result...

Update: Quell said they were like "the tip of a white hot spear, an insult. We arean insult." Hm? Why would denizens of the realms be driven to kill them? Stupid question... Why not seal off the borders (if possible)?

[Lisheo]

They'd break the seals, I suppose. Its what they do. But if you remember, Kulp was afraid he had destroyed his own warren in DG.
Yet we only know of three Sunderings: the Rivening of KE, Icarium shattering a warren fragment at the Azath, and the Beast Ritual. And two of those were, I assume, already weakened pieces of KE. So I think warrens are stronger than people think. Or they can heal quite effectively.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I thought Iccy shattered KE. Or was that a fragment of KE?

[Lisheo]

A fragment. Iccy's good, but KE's sundering was began in the time of Scabandari, well before Iccy. So I reckon Iccy shattered a fragment of KE.

[caladanbrood]

This has been well established for a very very long time. There was a fragment of Emurlahn anchored to Tremorlor, which Iccy broke up even more in an attempt to rescue daddy Gothos, who didn't need rescuing. Silly Iccy

[Mcflury]

 caladanbrood, on Nov 19 2008, 12:55 PM, said:

This has been well established for a very very long time. There was a fragment of Emurlahn anchored to Tremorlor, which Iccy broke up even more in an attempt to rescue daddy Gothos, who didn't need rescuing. Silly Iccy

What can one say? Boys will be boys

[Lisheo]

Thank you for support-of-theoryness, Brood.
So, is it also a given that the fragment of a warren the Beast Ritual destroyed was also a piece of KE?

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Is that Beast-Ritual destroyed fragment where Treach said "We tore a warren to pieces on that continent" in MoI?

Or is this something else I missed?

"crys"

[Lisheo]

It is indeed, AIJ. I think there's hints in HoC and maybe even DG. The First Empire destroyed a warren with the beast Ritual and the T'lan Imass came to clean up.

[Aptorian]

I don't believe they're the same. I think it was some other event. There's nothing to say that the two events were connected.