[Haleborne]

It took me a while to understand that Dassem Ultor is Dessembrae and the Lord of Tears.

But where does this fit in the pantheon and when exactly did he become an ascendant?

[Ain't_It_Just_]

No-one really knows how he ascended (assuming it wasn't in NoK).

The Cult exists, but as it's god is a "denier", it doesn't show up much.

If you think it's absurd, take Jhess-Mistress of Weaving.

[Jude]

can he use magic or what? I thought I remembered him using sorcery around or on drift avalii in HoC before we knew he was dassem and he was just this epic dude named traveller. But all evidence definitely seems to point to him not being able to. Or was that just the witch girl who was with him that was sorcerizing in HoC?

[Sinisdar Toste]

he's got his own ascendant powers im sure, perhaps he can bring anyone to tears, he seems to do that without trying. mostly he's just a badass that can survive anything he feels like. read RotCG to find out more.

[Aptorian]

Well, to encrease the mystery, after the recent book signing ... I think it was Brood... someone asked him about whether Dassem was an ascendant. And SE said no, or rather he phrased it like he didn't see Dassem as an ascendant. Now, this might mean that Dassem is just a man but Dassembrae is a god. Meaning when Dassem takes on the role he's a god, when not he's just a very deadly man.

As for the use of sorcery on HoC, I think what he displayed was an ability to survive direct hits with sorcery. That might be some kind of marshial ability he has.

[Osric]

Well the difference between ascendant and god has been made pretty clear. Dessembrae has followers and worshippers, wether Dassem wants them or not. So basically he can't be seen as an ascendant but he's a god. He just denies it and wanders. I wonder if he has a realm or something?
But then I havent read rotcg, more info seems to be in there.

[Aptorian]

Yeah, but it's like Erikson either can't get his own facts straight or he's just messing with us. For example there's a Samar Dev POV in TTH where she riding... or something... with Dassem and Karsa and she thinks of the two as ascendants. And Devs a mage/witch, she's supposed to know this kind of stuff.

[Blend]

Aptorian, on Nov 6 2008, 09:25 AM, said:

Yeah, but it's like Erikson either can't get his own facts straight or he's just messing with us. For example there's a Samar Dev POV in TTH where she riding... or something... with Dassem and Karsa and she thinks of the two as ascendants. And Devs a mage/witch, she's supposed to know this kind of stuff.

Yeah, but it's not inconceivable that she's wrong, that she assumes Dassem's an ascendant but in fact he's a god... It wouldn't be the first time a character in this series had a misconception!

[Lisheo]

Dassem is a God. He's got worshippers, so whether he is an ascendant or just a powerful mortal pales in comparison to that fact. Now, the question is, can he deny them like the Errant and Mael do? Can he pretend to be a mortal man?

RotCG Spoiler:

Spoiler

In RotCG, at the end, Hood notes that Dassem is taking on "that aspect" ie the role of Dessembrae. So I think that hints to the fact that he is doing what th Errant is doing. He is a God, possibly a powerful one, but he is denying his worshippers and thus restricting his potential to all that he had before his godhood, ie his sword skills.

[SpanishDancer]

On the topic of Ascendants, I've come to the impression that there's really no black and white line that defines an Ascendant. There are clear non-Ascendants (the majority of humans), clear Ascendants (Hood, Rake, Shadowthrone, etc), then a wide gradient in between (Ganoes Paran, not-Apsalar, Kalam, Cutter, Dassem, Karsa). Look at Kallor, cursed not to "ascend", but 100k years old and still a total bad ass, suggesting the Elder gods failed to understand the nuances of the word in their curse (pure speculation there). And Kilava, although the Imass sanctuary and being a Soletaken bonecaster might be pertinent as well.

Re-reading GotM, I've come to wonder if Dessembrae, Lord of Tragedy is a title, rather than a specific person. In the prologue, it's implied that Dassem Ultor's fall from Hood's grace happened about a decade before the series begins. However, Kruppe's reading about the chaining (start of chapter 12) mentions the Dessembrae "shattered the bonds Hood held upon him". Kruppe remarks about how old the volume is, suggesting it pertains to the likely chaining that coincides with Burn's sleep, a thousand years prior. Perhaps Hood has screwed over at least two people to make the necessary sacrifices over several chainings. Like the throne of shadow, the cult of Dessembrae might have just been worshiping an empty throne in the interim.

[Zuzu Bolin]

I'm maybe a third of the way through and the scene with Traveller, Cotillion and Shadowthrone really confused me. Like the former's internal dialogue notes how godhood hasn't done much for Dancer's general look and I'm like but you're a God/Ascendant as well? I suppose the other contributions to this thread kind of answers that - I've been avoiding this sub-forum until now.

On a side note, when Cotillion actually called him Dassem. Amazing.

Also, I'm so excited about Traveller possibly meeting Karsa. I actually yelped when Samar Dev appeared on the Toblakai's horse. I was assuming it was a K'Chain Che'Malle that was putting a beatdown on the Skathandi.

[worry]

You should still avoid this sub-forum until you're done with the book.