[Aptorian]

To pick up where Abyss left off. The reason why is he is worse is because he gets so much publicity. Every book he's written has been on the NY Times best seller list. The guy has sold millions and millions of shitty doorstops. The problem with this is that he pollutes the market. Millions of people now think that Goodkinds kind of half assed poorly thought through stories are what Fantasy is about. Generic fantasy, shitty characters and plot strands you can see a mile away sprinkled with ridiculous ideas of ideology and ethics.

I think what really annoys me is that it could have been so good, but Goodkind didn't plan a series of books, he wrote a book per paycheck. From book 3 the series turned to shit.

[Tapper]

haroos, on 16 August 2010 - 03:27 PM, said:

Abyss, on 16 August 2010 - 03:15 PM, said:

haroos, on 16 August 2010 - 03:07 PM, said:

...i agree that he is an arrogant person, that somewhere along his third of 4th book in his SoT series he also lost alot of
merit points as an author...

You answered your own question.

And we really don't need another Tairy thread when the existing one gets into every responsive self-aggrandizing evil chicken related detail so threadmerge will be executed in 3... 2...

what about the second part of my qoute you used ?

I think the ebil cat meant by merging that the answers to that second question can also be found in page 1 to 15 of this thread. A lot of it is ranting about how bad it/he is, but there's also some explanation on why the general population of this board has a genuine dislike for him in there.

[Abyss]

that^... and also he makes my eyes bleed.

[haroos]

Aptorian, on 16 August 2010 - 03:57 PM, said:

To pick up where Abyss left off. The reason why is he is worse is because he gets so much publicity. Every book he's written has been on the NY Times best seller list. The guy has sold millions and millions of shitty doorstops. The problem with this is that he pollutes the market. Millions of people now think that Goodkinds kind of half assed poorly thought through stories are what Fantasy is about. Generic fantasy, shitty characters and plot strands you can see a mile away sprinkled with ridiculous ideas of ideology and ethics.

I think what really annoys me is that it could have been so good, but Goodkind didn't plan a series of books, he wrote a book per paycheck. From book 3 the series turned to shit.

parts of what you said can be attached to RJ after book 7.
so for you it's a matter of his personality i take it ?
if so, then again i have to ask, how is he different from certain other authors ?

not everyone is a humble kind of person, some are pretty arrogant.

[Primateus]

haroos, on 16 August 2010 - 03:07 PM, said:

i know that alot of people hate him with a vengeance.

why ?

I don't really hate the man as much as I dislike his writings. Granted, his novella Debt of Bones wasn't half bad and the first book, Wizards First Rule, certainly wasn't a bad debut for a first time writer. But other than that I have since realized, as mentioned in my above post, that the SoT series isn't really very well written. Certainly, it's better than anything I have ever produced (which isn't much) but that doesn't really speak in his favour.

Quote

i agree that he is an arrogant person, that somewhere along his third of 4th book in his SoT series he also lost alot of
merit points as an author, but seriously , how is he any worse than quite a few others ?

I suppose he isn't worse than many others. My beef, or one of them, is that his own private philosophical opinions are shining through in his writing a bit too much. He's a Rand devotee, and that is certainly his right, but I tend to dismiss Rand-ism as naive and childish. And if he has to base the underlying story on that philosophy the least he could was do a better job at it.

Quote

i have a theory that the hate to him began during the hight of succes of WoT, when people considered him as a knockoff
of RJ's books.

Dunno about that, I never really got into WoT.

Quote

i remember even once a guy writing that terry's heart surgery was an imitation of RJ's sickness (that was about 3-4 years ago).

The guy who wrote that should be ashamed! I have no doubt that Goodkind's heart surgery was a medical needed procedure required to save his life. To think otherwise is simply stupid and offensive.

Quote

so, my question is : aside from your views on his writing skills, what exactly do you find so loathsome about him ?
(and please, some elaboration would be nice)..

Well, I think I've described why I dislike his writings, I do not dislike Terry himself, just his books. I mean, take a look at his main protagonist, Richard Rahl, he's even more awesome than Anomander Rake, Caladan Brood, Fiddler, Quick Ben and Kalam put together. Seriously, what's Batman, Wonderwoman, Flash, Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter doing in the JLA? Superman don't really need any of them, he's that friggin awesome. Same with Richard Rahl.

[haroos]

Primateus, on 16 August 2010 - 05:11 PM, said:

haroos, on 16 August 2010 - 03:07 PM, said:

i know that alot of people hate him with a vengeance.

why ?

I don't really hate the man as much as I dislike his writings. Granted, his novella Debt of Bones wasn't half bad and the first book, Wizards First Rule, certainly wasn't a bad debut for a first time writer. But other than that I have since realized, as mentioned in my above post, that the SoT series isn't really very well written. Certainly, it's better than anything I have ever produced (which isn't much) but that doesn't really speak in his favour.

Quote

i agree that he is an arrogant person, that somewhere along his third of 4th book in his SoT series he also lost alot of
merit points as an author, but seriously , how is he any worse than quite a few others ?

I suppose he isn't worse than many others. My beef, or one of them, is that his own private philosophical opinions are shining through in his writing a bit too much. He's a Rand devotee, and that is certainly his right, but I tend to dismiss Rand-ism as naive and childish. And if he has to base the underlying story on that philosophy the least he could was do a better job at it.

Quote

i have a theory that the hate to him began during the hight of succes of WoT, when people considered him as a knockoff
of RJ's books.

Dunno about that, I never really got into WoT.

Quote

i remember even once a guy writing that terry's heart surgery was an imitation of RJ's sickness (that was about 3-4 years ago).

The guy who wrote that should be ashamed! I have no doubt that Goodkind's heart surgery was a medical needed procedure required to save his life. To think otherwise is simply stupid and offensive.

Quote

so, my question is : aside from your views on his writing skills, what exactly do you find so loathsome about him ?
(and please, some elaboration would be nice)..

Well, I think I've described why I dislike his writings, I do not dislike Terry himself, just his books. I mean, take a look at his main protagonist, Richard Rahl, he's even more awesome than Anomander Rake, Caladan Brood, Fiddler, Quick Ben and Kalam put together. Seriously, what's Batman, Wonderwoman, Flash, Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter doing in the JLA? Superman don't really need any of them, he's that friggin awesome. Same with Richard Rahl.

my question comes from the huge waves of hatred that go towards him on so many forums.

[Primateus]

Indeed

[Aptorian]

haroos, on 16 August 2010 - 04:33 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 16 August 2010 - 03:57 PM, said:

To pick up where Abyss left off. The reason why is he is worse is because he gets so much publicity. Every book he's written has been on the NY Times best seller list. The guy has sold millions and millions of shitty doorstops. The problem with this is that he pollutes the market. Millions of people now think that Goodkinds kind of half assed poorly thought through stories are what Fantasy is about. Generic fantasy, shitty characters and plot strands you can see a mile away sprinkled with ridiculous ideas of ideology and ethics.

I think what really annoys me is that it could have been so good, but Goodkind didn't plan a series of books, he wrote a book per paycheck. From book 3 the series turned to shit.

parts of what you said can be attached to RJ after book 7.
so for you it's a matter of his personality i take it ?
if so, then again i have to ask, how is he different from certain other authors ?

not everyone is a humble kind of person, some are pretty arrogant.

No, I can ignore his personality, as I wrote above, it is his creation, this "Sword of Truth" series that irks me. It is a colossal mound of literary bullshit.

I do agree on the obvious connections between the Wheel of Time and the Sword of Truth. The similarities are there. But I got tired of WoT after book 4. One book earlier than Goodkinds series. WoT was too boring. SoT was too... disappointing.

And there was an evil chicken. A chicken. That was evil.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 16 August 2010 - 05:20 PM

[Abyss]

haroos, on 16 August 2010 - 04:33 PM, said:

...if so, then again i have to ask, how is he different from certain other authors ?

not everyone is a humble kind of person, some are pretty arrogant.

And we don't like them either.

haroos, on 16 August 2010 - 05:14 PM, said:

...my question comes from the huge waves of hatred that go towards him on so many forums.

See upthread. There are sufficient examples of comments he has made that prompt a level of dislike beyond his books.

And mostly he makes eyes bleed.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Primateus, on 16 August 2010 - 05:11 PM, said:

Quote

i remember even once a guy writing that terry's heart surgery was an imitation of RJ's sickness (that was about 3-4 years ago).

The guy who wrote that should be ashamed! I have no doubt that Goodkind's heart surgery was a medical needed procedure required to save his life. To think otherwise is simply stupid and offensive.

Well, Goodkind did sort of gloat that his heart was doing great after his surgery just as Jordan was dying of his sickness.

[Aptorian]

If I'd just survived having my chest cracked open and my heart getting a face peal I'd probably be pretty full of myself as well... and very high on pain killers.

[Grimjust Bearegular]

He never had any merit points as an author, and if he did, he lost them in the first half of the first book, which is a total rip-oof of the first WOT book, only re-written by the fantasy genre equivalent of Norman Mailer...

[Aptorian]

Wizards First Rule is better than the first 3 WoT books combined because it manages to be innovative and shocking at once. He over did it with the hard core BDSM and the rapetastic bad guys, but otherwise it was entertaining and I was never bored (Except with the rape stuff).

Eye of the World on the other hand was so fucking slow it made me want to cry. Everything was generic. All the characters with the exception of the Aes Sedai and Traveller guy were annoying. It was still interesting because you sensed that the background story, the world building and the magic system was solid. Something that was utterly lacking in the Sword of Truth series.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 16 August 2010 - 06:53 PM

[Primateus]

Grief, on 10 June 2009 - 08:06 PM, said:

Please don't de-rail the bashing into a discussion.

-Grief

On a side note, I want to put this as my signature, but the stoopid forum won't let me. Something about how I can only use three lines in a signature....I'm pretty sure I'm only using said three lines.

We now return you to the bashing of Terry Goodkind.

He smells!

[haroos]

Grimhilde, on 16 August 2010 - 06:46 PM, said:

He never had any merit points as an author, and if he did, he lost them in the first half of the first book, which is a total rip-oof of the first WOT book, only re-written by the fantasy genre equivalent of Norman Mailer...

huh, a comparison to wot, a "rip off".

well, some are bound to say that, but wot isn't exactly original, is it ?
i read all the wot books (mainly to finish the thing already), and the sot just to finish it.
even if i did not know of the malazan books, and soiaf, and so many others, i still would not give any of them high marks.
for the record i think goodkind is a decent writer, as far as writing a book goes, but his story sucks.
with wot it was the exact reversal.

but what you say just bring so much back, i remember there was a chat (mirc like) build in a web page, about 14 years ago, it was so primitive compared to what you have now.
but the hatred was noticed back then.

imo, the great hate wave of goodkind came from wot fans.

[HoosierDaddy]

I ready every book in the series. Even after noticing how awful it had begun, I try to finish what I start.

Perhaps the original "great hate wave" can from WoT fans at first. I don't know, I read WoT pretty religiously back in the days, and I do remember laughing about the blatant knock-offs of the Aes Sedai/Sisters of Light, Black Ajah/Sisters of Dark. Goodkind even introduced a few genuinely cool ideas (the Slythe, Jagang, that dude from Naked Empire), but he also jumped the shark early. You'll hear a lot about the Chicken Chime, rape-happy characters, Zedd and Garp being ludicrous, a statute that inspires a rebellion, the over the top bashing in the head of how socialism/communism are evil institutions, and Richard's over the top bloodlust.

But in the end, the hate doesn't come from the fantasy elements in the literature itself. Lots of books suck, and lots fail spectacularly. I think it is a mixture of the Randian in philosophy in the books, which towards the end of the series became so dense that I had to literally skim entire pages to get to any action or dialogue scene, and Goodkind's statements in real-life that have led to an intense dislike of the books because of a pretty big dislike of the man himself. If you don't understand why those statements bother people and make Goodkind look like an even bigger ass than his literature sometimes portrays himself as possibly being, then it can't be explained adequately to you.

[Grimjust Bearegular]

haroos, on 16 August 2010 - 07:56 PM, said:

Grimhilde, on 16 August 2010 - 06:46 PM, said:

He never had any merit points as an author, and if he did, he lost them in the first half of the first book, which is a total rip-oof of the first WOT book, only re-written by the fantasy genre equivalent of Norman Mailer...

huh, a comparison to wot, a "rip off".

well, some are bound to say that, but wot isn't exactly original, is it ?
i read all the wot books (mainly to finish the thing already), and the sot just to finish it.
even if i did not know of the malazan books, and soiaf, and so many others, i still would not give any of them high marks.
for the record i think goodkind is a decent writer, as far as writing a book goes, but his story sucks.
with wot it was the exact reversal.

but what you say just bring so much back, i remember there was a chat (mirc like) build in a web page, about 14 years ago, it was so primitive compared to what you have now.
but the hatred was noticed back then.

imo, the great hate wave of goodkind came from wot fans.

no....just no.

Nothing these days is exaclty original. But there's a difference between being inspired by other books and borrowing cool concepts, and stealing whole chunks of story...

Luke Skywalker, on 16 August 2010 - 08:56 PM, said:

I ready every book in the series. Even after noticing how awful it had begun, I try to finish what I start.

Perhaps the original "great hate wave" can from WoT fans at first. I don't know, I read WoT pretty religiously back in the days, and I do remember laughing about the blatant knock-offs of the Aes Sedai/Sisters of Light, Black Ajah/Sisters of Dark. Goodkind even introduced a few genuinely cool ideas (the Slythe, Jagang, that dude from Naked Empire), but he also jumped the shark early. You'll hear a lot about the Chicken Chime, rape-happy characters, Zedd and Garp being ludicrous, a statute that inspires a rebellion, the over the top bashing in the head of how socialism/communism are evil institutions, and Richard's over the top bloodlust.

But in the end, the hate doesn't come from the fantasy elements in the literature itself. Lots of books suck, and lots fail spectacularly. I think it is a mixture of the Randian in philosophy in the books, which towards the end of the series became so dense that I had to literally skim entire pages to get to any action or dialogue scene, and Goodkind's statements in real-life that have led to an intense dislike of the books because of a pretty big dislike of the man himself. If you don't understand why those statements bother people and make Goodkind look like an even bigger ass than his literature sometimes portrays himself as possibly being, then it can't be explained adequately to you.

Well put, sir.

[haroos]

terry goodkind is publishing a new book.
it's about richard and khalan post the sot books.
it has to be , or it is ridiculous (this is where people will comment "or ? " and laugh to themselves).

but the story in the end is irrelevant, if the story continues the same theme of richard and khalan being pursued, and richard without any knowledge of magic still,
then all i can say is that i will finally agree with the terry goodkind bashers.

time will tell.

[Primateus]

I read in an interview once that he didn't actually write stories. He just sat on his couch and the characters would come to him in a vision and tell him their stories...

[Dave1]

I remember a interview with TG where he was asked how he thinks up his characters, he said Richard was based in him.
/thread