[Serc]

Mockra, on Oct 29 2008, 03:19 PM, said:

Omtose, on Oct 29 2008, 04:14 PM, said:

(with which I agree with... edits in quotes are no-no's, as I said before)

see now im going to start this fucking arguement all over again cause your pissing me off.

I never edited IN the quote...i just put in the correct fucking quote marks because they were WRONG!!!!!.....FFS
these things ------> [q uote name='Omtose' date='Oct 29 2008, 04:16 PM' post='458947']

WTF is soooooo wrong with THAT!!!


GOOOOSEFRAHBAAAaaaaah...Gooooooosefraaabaaa

is that what your pissed about??

holy crap dude - i wasnt saying about that, i meant you arent meant to edit posts except for spelling or grammar, yes you were doing it because you misrepresented me but a simple explanation was all that was needed, in ost games after the fact editing is actually against the rules, i wasnt trying to be patronising i was just saying that because unlike this game (see above post) it isnt against the rules, i checked.

holy crap what a stupid pair of idiots we are that wasnt cross posts that was crossed wires.

[Omtose]

Mockra, on Oct 29 2008, 11:23 AM, said:

Omtose, on Oct 29 2008, 04:09 PM, said:

Fener, on Oct 29 2008, 11:05 AM, said:

I know who Emurlahn is. So what does that make Omtose?

Someone who isn't afraid to speak his own mind, even if it leads to non-arguments.

I haven't seen a single bit of reply with content from both you and Mockra (ironically, again the two of you together... ) on that post I made, which DOES adress the state of the game. Even if you disagree with me, you could still put forward your own thoughts, but no. We get to see replies from each of you happy to throw out gutfeelings, vague pointers and implications.

Good for you that you know who Emur is. I don't know who he is. Care to enlighten me, Sherlock?

What quote are you talking about Omtose...i have literally brushed over everything to get to this point. \
Very bust at work today.

I meant post 578, at which you reacted possibly to the "aggressive Mockra is aggressive" but not to what I wrote under it, which contains slightly valid reasons for not being afraid of lynching a company guy.

[Mockra]

Serc, on Oct 29 2008, 04:24 PM, said:

i think we all need to chill out.

mockra - editing comments is generally against the rules, i looked back, it is not against the rules in this game, therefore i was in the wrong. I removed my vote lets leave it at that.

I dont want to start arguing again..but i just said i never touched the actual "comment"...i merely put in the correct tabs
I have see people correct tabs in pretty much every fucking game since number 6...so you can understand how insulting it might be for me when you pull this lofty attitude towards what i did...mkay?

[Shadow]

ughhhh
hey guys

i'm alive
head-kills
brain-fried
hangover-brutal

must work or get fired

back in 3 hours, will catch up + comment

[Mockra]

Omtose, on Oct 29 2008, 04:28 PM, said:

Mockra, on Oct 29 2008, 11:23 AM, said:

Omtose, on Oct 29 2008, 04:09 PM, said:

Fener, on Oct 29 2008, 11:05 AM, said:

I know who Emurlahn is. So what does that make Omtose?

Someone who isn't afraid to speak his own mind, even if it leads to non-arguments.

I haven't seen a single bit of reply with content from both you and Mockra (ironically, again the two of you together... ) on that post I made, which DOES adress the state of the game. Even if you disagree with me, you could still put forward your own thoughts, but no. We get to see replies from each of you happy to throw out gutfeelings, vague pointers and implications.

Good for you that you know who Emur is. I don't know who he is. Care to enlighten me, Sherlock?

What quote are you talking about Omtose...i have literally brushed over everything to get to this point. \
Very bust at work today.

I meant post 578, at which you reacted possibly to the "aggressive Mockra is aggressive" but not to what I wrote under it, which contains slightly valid reasons for not being afraid of lynching a company guy.

Oh no my reaction was just that you "agreed" with Emhurlan...so if i were him i would have painted you paired with him....sigh
Ill go have a proper look.

[Fener]

Omtose, on Oct 29 2008, 03:26 PM, said:

@ Mockra: To save us a repetition: Serc gave the reasoning.

@ Fener: yes. There can be stupid luck/ bad luck. But there are always checks and balances. If a faction that's not a one-man-faction loses all victory options when one of its members is removed, then it is bad design. Even in the case of Monroe + Mohinder, and I think I'm dead right about Monroe having an alternate victory condition, it will still take him time to infect everyone he needs to infect. Time enough to be lynched, found, revealed, vigged or captured himself.

That makes me pretty sure by the by that Sylar could have a (temporary?) lynch bulletproof, since him dying day 1 is terminal for the game.

If you are right about Adam and Siresh - would it be possible that they have a game independent from the main game? Does that make sense?

[Serc]

Fener, on Oct 29 2008, 03:27 PM, said:

Serc, on Oct 29 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

fener - yes i can give thumbs up and down etc so thats a bonus. What makes you think emur is suresh?

Just my interpretation of your paintings.

i cant discuss the content, but healers cant heal themselves, guards cant guard themselves.

i have a list now of every character and every alt and all i am doing is marking off each person from the night actions. Every night action has been posted so far.

[Mockra]

Serc, on Oct 29 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

Mockra, on Oct 29 2008, 03:19 PM, said:

Omtose, on Oct 29 2008, 04:14 PM, said:

(with which I agree with... edits in quotes are no-no's, as I said before)

see now im going to start this fucking arguement all over again cause your pissing me off.

I never edited IN the quote...i just put in the correct fucking quote marks because they were WRONG!!!!!.....FFS
these things ------> [q uote name='Omtose' date='Oct 29 2008, 04:16 PM' post='458947']

WTF is soooooo wrong with THAT!!!


GOOOOSEFRAHBAAAaaaaah...Gooooooosefraaabaaa

is that what your pissed about??

holy crap dude - i wasnt saying about that, i meant you arent meant to edit posts except for spelling or grammar, yes you were doing it because you misrepresented me but a simple explanation was all that was needed, in ost games after the fact editing is actually against the rules, i wasnt trying to be patronising i was just saying that because unlike this game (see above post) it isnt against the rules, i checked.

holy crap what a stupid pair of idiots we are that wasnt cross posts that was crossed wires.

ughhhh.....dude...i DID explain after the fact.
many many times....

[Omtose]

@ Fener: as an added victory condition: yes it does. They are both overruled upon being saved, killed or captured and have to use the normal game to get to their goals.
Also, I think the infecting (and thus, the cure as well) will have effects for the ones being infected/ cured (namely, removal of the effects of infection).

[Serc]

Mockra, on Oct 29 2008, 03:32 PM, said:

Serc, on Oct 29 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

Mockra, on Oct 29 2008, 03:19 PM, said:

Omtose, on Oct 29 2008, 04:14 PM, said:

(with which I agree with... edits in quotes are no-no's, as I said before)

see now im going to start this fucking arguement all over again cause your pissing me off.

I never edited IN the quote...i just put in the correct fucking quote marks because they were WRONG!!!!!.....FFS
these things ------> [q uote name='Omtose' date='Oct 29 2008, 04:16 PM' post='458947']

WTF is soooooo wrong with THAT!!!


GOOOOSEFRAHBAAAaaaaah...Gooooooosefraaabaaa

is that what your pissed about??

holy crap dude - i wasnt saying about that, i meant you arent meant to edit posts except for spelling or grammar, yes you were doing it because you misrepresented me but a simple explanation was all that was needed, in ost games after the fact editing is actually against the rules, i wasnt trying to be patronising i was just saying that because unlike this game (see above post) it isnt against the rules, i checked.

holy crap what a stupid pair of idiots we are that wasnt cross posts that was crossed wires.

ughhhh.....dude...i DID explain after the fact.
many many times....

ha if it had of been between us thats where it would have ended, it seems in mafia people just like following a banner even when there isnt really one there.

Can we all just leave it, the game hasnt even started.

back on game - i think we are waiting on gamelon and thats it, does anyone know why the game was paused?

[Fener]

Omtose, on Oct 29 2008, 03:33 PM, said:

@ Fener: as an added victory condition: yes it does. They are both overruled upon being saved, killed or captured and have to use the normal game to get to their goals.
Also, I think the infecting (and thus, the cure as well) will have effects for the ones being infected/ cured (namely, removal of the effects of infection).

We presume a lot with this but it makes a lot of sense. I presumed that Hiro would have his own winning condition. I also presume that Hiro and Ando will know each other etc. In fact I presume there are a number of pairs in play here.

[Serc]

i have a player whom i know their alt, i cannot communicate off thread with them. If the other pairs are similar then they arent very strong as it just removes a person from your potential suspects. I have no winning condition, and nothing relating to them in my pm other than their alt.

[Mockra]

Omtose, on Oct 29 2008, 03:55 PM, said:

Aggressive Mockra is aggressive.

To be honest, the lynching has to start somewhere. Simply put, we need some information, but we need to make sure we don't lynch a guy that results in immediate victory for another. I'd say we can go one night without a lynch and see all the fun stuff that's happening, but we'll need to lynch after that.

Now, everyone opposed to lynching the company on principle, take a chill pill and relax.
If Sylar requires 2 nights for a kill (or maybe day action scout, night action kill?), he's not going to be terribly fast about it all.
Peter is reactive and can only target targeted people for his effect anyway.

Then we have 4 (4!) suspected company guys, maybe operating in pairs; if they can even communicate amongst each other, or know each other. So far, we know the Haitian can give memory loss and we also have seen Noah putting in provisionals for capture. With Sylar being slow and Peter dependant upon hot nights, the company seems to be operating on more than an equal footing with the two of them if they can pull off one capture (Noah) and one temporary banishment (Haitian), and then we left Bob and Elle out of the equation.

Now, maybe the company needs a headstart to keep up in late game with Peter and Sylar, but do you really, really think that their game will fall down like a cardhouse hit by a hurricane if they eat an unlucky night 1 lynch? That would be real poor balance for the game, and Gem has been working very long on this one. Also, a lynch is just 1 dead person a day, do you claim to know how many vigs are out there, and compare their overall effect to that 1 lynch?

Lastly, it wouldn't strike me as unbelievable that we're to be led on a merry chase to eliminate the people with unique victory conditions before we even get to the endgame. Think about it: we've seen Mohinder put in 3 heals. How many infects do you think Adam has per night? My own guess is 2, at the least. If he has to infect X players (X being anywhere between 1 specific person and all of us), coupled with lynches and vigs, he could be damned fast with it especially if Mohinder is removed somehow, or blundering around.

All in all, I don't understand the nervousness about lynching a company guy. Lynching Sylar, yes, but Bob, Elle, the Haitian or Noah, who probably all work towards the same goal, no.

Ok i see what you mean about the company...BUT
My main concern is that the company are most likely the most effective tool of taking out sylar.
Or at least crippling him by recruiting him.
IF the company can get sylar, then the threat of him killing people will hopefully be hindered.

If we go after the company...we are then effectively helping sylar and peter (to an extent)

[Serc]

i think we are looking at things too much by way of the show where sylar is the bad guy and peter the good (though that dynamic is flawed for later stuff).

But if you are killed by sylar you win if he wins, strange yes,but it is true. The fact is that anyone of us without specific winning conditions can only win by being recruited to a faction and until that happens we cant know which faction we are going to join. As is i think our job should be to survive long enough to be in a faction and to prolong the game until we are in a faction.

ergo we go to night.

[Serc]

in fact better putting money where mouth is

goto night

i know it wont work for a while but i want the intention put there for all to see, i think my reasoning is sound. i am not in a faction, i cant afford to risk losing the game on a lynch when it isnt helping me.

[Omtose]

Serc admitting to knowing someone else (Simone), but not necessarily with contact, in fact, I think he denied that.
Hiro and Ando are likely pairs. Haitian and Noah are probably a pair, and Noah seems likely to know Claire, but is probably forbidden from revealing her.

Then I'm personally convinced that Adam Monroe has that alternate victory condition that Mohinder can cure (note: Mohinder may not have an alternate victory condition himself, he may just be a counter for Adam).

Hiro can possibly have an alternate victory condition, but frankly, I doubt it. Just like Peter, he's out to save the world. Whatever he is though, I expect Hiro to be a powerhouse, far more than a simple finder.

Why Simone is in the game, I really, really don't know. I tied her initially down to a victory condition for Isaac, but mainly because I have no clue why she is here.

The one other option I see for an alternate victory condition is Nikki-Jessica in which Nikki needs to get rid of Jessica, somehow.

[Mockra]

Serc, on Oct 29 2008, 04:42 PM, said:

i think we are looking at things too much by way of the show where sylar is the bad guy and peter the good (though that dynamic is flawed for later stuff).

But if you are killed by sylar you win if he wins, strange yes,but it is true. The fact is that anyone of us without specific winning conditions can only win by being recruited to a faction and until that happens we cant know which faction we are going to join. As is i think our job should be to survive long enough to be in a faction and to prolong the game until we are in a faction.

ergo we go to night.

I would rather not put my faith in one man...especially since i have to die to become a member of his team.

If sylar cant kill then he cant win, correct? If we cripple the company then he will have more chance to do as he pleases.

Peter just wants sylar dead no?...then peter is the one that should really be lynched first. The only problem is he protects claire from syalr?
Thats where the company need to get syalr...and get him fast.

Its like a big circle no matter what we do its bad...in fact its a real shot in the dark to lynch anyone.
Especially on day one.

[Omtose]

Mockra, on Oct 29 2008, 11:39 AM, said:

Omtose, on Oct 29 2008, 03:55 PM, said:

Aggressive Mockra is aggressive.

To be honest, the lynching has to start somewhere. Simply put, we need some information, but we need to make sure we don't lynch a guy that results in immediate victory for another. I'd say we can go one night without a lynch and see all the fun stuff that's happening, but we'll need to lynch after that.

Now, everyone opposed to lynching the company on principle, take a chill pill and relax.
If Sylar requires 2 nights for a kill (or maybe day action scout, night action kill?), he's not going to be terribly fast about it all.
Peter is reactive and can only target targeted people for his effect anyway.

Then we have 4 (4!) suspected company guys, maybe operating in pairs; if they can even communicate amongst each other, or know each other. So far, we know the Haitian can give memory loss and we also have seen Noah putting in provisionals for capture. With Sylar being slow and Peter dependant upon hot nights, the company seems to be operating on more than an equal footing with the two of them if they can pull off one capture (Noah) and one temporary banishment (Haitian), and then we left Bob and Elle out of the equation.

Now, maybe the company needs a headstart to keep up in late game with Peter and Sylar, but do you really, really think that their game will fall down like a cardhouse hit by a hurricane if they eat an unlucky night 1 lynch? That would be real poor balance for the game, and Gem has been working very long on this one. Also, a lynch is just 1 dead person a day, do you claim to know how many vigs are out there, and compare their overall effect to that 1 lynch?

Lastly, it wouldn't strike me as unbelievable that we're to be led on a merry chase to eliminate the people with unique victory conditions before we even get to the endgame. Think about it: we've seen Mohinder put in 3 heals. How many infects do you think Adam has per night? My own guess is 2, at the least. If he has to infect X players (X being anywhere between 1 specific person and all of us), coupled with lynches and vigs, he could be damned fast with it especially if Mohinder is removed somehow, or blundering around.

All in all, I don't understand the nervousness about lynching a company guy. Lynching Sylar, yes, but Bob, Elle, the Haitian or Noah, who probably all work towards the same goal, no.

Ok i see what you mean about the company...BUT
My main concern is that the company are most likely the most effective tool of taking out sylar.
Or at least crippling him by recruiting him.
IF the company can get sylar, then the threat of him killing people will hopefully be hindered.

If we go after the company...we are then effectively helping sylar and peter (to an extent)

I agree that they stand a good chance of getting him.
But he can escape them at will by sacrificing actions, so unless they know he escaped and know he's Sylar, they may not recapture him immediately. Plus, as Serc says, Sylar isn't traditional scum, he is a vehicle to victory, so unless you already have a victory condition, all three factions being effective is what you gamble for as n unaligned. If I have to hit an existing faction with a day 1 or day 2 lynch, I'd much rather hit the company than Peter or Sylar.

EDIT: maybe Peter is an exception and lynching him is the most effective road to victory.

This post has been edited by Omtose: 29 October 2008 - 03:53 PM

[Mockra]

Omtose, on Oct 29 2008, 04:46 PM, said:

Why Simone is in the game, I really, really don't know. I tied her initially down to a victory condition for Isaac, but mainly because I have no clue why she is here.

who is Simone again?

[Omtose]

Isaac's ex girlfriend, who then dated Peter. Got shot by Isaac by accident in one of the last episodes, series 1, irrc.