[raest]

Do Surly and Tayschrenn know that Kellanved and Dancer survived and made it to the Deadhouse?

When Kiska tells Tayschrenn she saw Kellanved and Dancer enter the Deadhouse, he says something like (I'm going from memory here): "No, you can't have seen them, because Surly and I agreed that they are dead." The way I read it, I got the impression that Surly and Tayschrenn knew, or at least had a suspicion that Kellanved and Dancer somehow survived. Particularly the use of "agreed" got me thinking that Surly and Tayschrenn decided that the official story would be that Kellanved and Dancer are dead.

And in a related note, in the BotF series are we ever told that the Malazans (including Laseen) know that Kellanved and Dancer have ascended and now are Shadowthrone and Cotillion? I've just always assumed that at least all the important people know, eg Quick Ben.

Here's a crazy theory: assuming Surly, Tayschrenn and possibly others of the Old Guard know they've ascended, maybe Kellanved and Dancer cooked up some super sneaky long term scheme and the Old Guard are in on it? I have not basis for this theory other than the knowledge that Shadowthrone and others are all sneaky b**tards and with SE you never know.

[ch'arlz]

raest;207579 said:

Do Surly and Tayschrenn know that Kellanved and Dancer survived and made it to the Deadhouse?

I think the question is really *when* did Surly and Tay know of their ascent. At the time if the Kiska quote as I recall, Surly and Tay believed that Kellanved and Dancer had died. Whether we're clued in to a change in that belief in NoK I don't remember, but certainly it's established for all 'important' people by GotM.

raest;207579 said:

Here's a crazy theory: assuming Surly, Tayschrenn and possibly others of the Old Guard know they've ascended, maybe Kellanved and Dancer cooked up some super sneaky long term scheme and the Old Guard are in on it? I have not basis for this theory other than the knowledge that Shadowthrone and others are all sneaky b**tards and with SE you never know.

Not crazy at all -- there's a lot of evidence scattered throughout the series to support it actually. Of course, there may have been a common scheme devised by Kellanved in the beginning but its fruition will depend on the mental stability and ambitions of the participants, primarily Kellanved.

-ch'arlz

[Abyss]

Actually, Surly and co, pre-end of NoK, seem to think Kel and Dancer are simply not coming back from wherever they went - maybe dead, maybe just missing, who knows...

But it seems the Shadow Moon was the designated time for the return if it was going to happen.


It's suggested in MoI that there are a lot of plans within plans related to Kel/Dancer's ascnesion, Surly taking the throne, WHiskeyjack's demotion, the secret recipe to Colonel Sanders crispy chicken, etc etc.

- Abyss, knows at least 2 of the seven herbs and spices...

[Skywalker]

My reaction to NoK... this seemed as good a place as any to post it.

The Good Stuff

• Temper, Kiska are both great characters.
  
• Loved getting to read about the Night of the Shadow Moon, and Dassem's fall at Y'Ghatan (both events have been referred to so often in the main sequence).
  
• Loved the glimpses of the Stormriders; the 'Why are you killing us?" at the end was spooky good.
  
• Loved the ties to TB - I am sure that book will now be more comprehensible when I reread it.
  
• I liked the way Tayschrenn (finally) got fleshed out in this book. His strategy of 'stand aside, survive' is making sense.
  
• The cameos by Surly/ Laseen, Topper, Aragan, etc. were nice as were the references to the enforcement of edict against magery

The Not-Bad stuff

• Reading ICE is like reading a Reader's Digest Condensed Book version of SE. Nice, but in some things so radically different from the more 'wax-eloquent-philosophy' we are used to
  
• I thought the book should've been longer, possibly with an epilogue to tie it directly to GoTM or TB (the way the Clone Wars cartoons segued into Star Wars Episode 3)

The Complaints

• Too much stuff happens offstage - Edgewalker dealing with the Glacier in Emurlahn, Surly/ Kellanved's confrontation, Tayschrenn/ Agayla/ Obo stopping the Stormriders... In that sense the book clears up some mysteries while posing questions that may never be answered
  
• Did anyone else get the feeling that the 'old-lying-low-mysterious-uber-powerful' archetype was over used? Agayla, Obo (who reminds me of Tom Bombadil for obvious reasons), the Fisherman, the Azath boundary protectors... I mean come on! I buy that Malaz was a hotbed of power, but this is crazy.