[Gavin]

The Dude, on Oct 23 2008, 10:09 AM, said:

I am on. Going through a re-read at the moment. Anything you want to bounce off of me. I am spinning my wheels here.

A reread is a good plan, see if there's anything that comes up. A couple points, does Tapper come across as a Symp? If so I think a vote on Silencer is justified.
If he doesn't then I'm not so sure about Silencer. Second do Obdi and Vengy interact between each other at all? I'm just curious if they are paired and if so they don't normally say much to each other in thread.


Also just a general comment... two kills again. We have assumed Vig both times but could we be looking at the unlikely, but real possiblity we have 4 of team evil, 2 independent killers with a symp each? I'm just trying to work through the possiblites... the more I think about it the more unlikely I find it though.

Day 1, someone was healed.
Day 2, someone went for the obvious Dibs kill, someone thought add to confusion lets kill Gem.
Day 3, Yellow for the obvious kill again, Tapper to imply a Vig.

[The Dude]

I haven't seen much between Obdi and Venge yet... but I am only on Page 25. I will keep an eye on tapper through the rest of the read.

I don't think there are 2 seperate killers.... maybe you had a random heal... but I don't see it... but.. if we get 2 tonight we know whats up

It would have been nice if a vig had revealed before last nights night. But now that thats passed we could never be sure they are telling the truth.

This post has been edited by The Dude: 23 October 2008 - 02:24 AM

[Gavin]

Well two kills over two days so I wanted to include the possiblity. I do find it rather unlikely but its still plausible. We haven't had the Vig come forward yet so I didn't want to discount it.

Let me know about the reread, I might attempt one during my lunch break. Looking forward to JA's reread as well and seeing what he comes up with. Numbers are dropping and still no killer so its getting a little tighter than I would want.

[The Dude]

Morgoth, on Oct 17 2008, 10:57 AM, said:

drinksinbars, on Oct 17 2008, 07:47 PM, said:

morgoth - who do you want lynched? i cant see a case on yellow and being lowest poster cause your at work isnt a good enough reaosn in my eyes.

personally i am tempted to go for alt, but the way the dude just jumped on when i suspect him and morgo are in cahoots has me wondering...

As i've said several times, I don't suspect anyone enough to want them lynched at this point.

If I should bring up two names, it would be Obdi, for his general playing style and shying off when people started pressuring each other, and Vengance for still staying safe within joke territory. This is all meta though, based on how they generally play. I have no idea about the new ones, especially the guy with the funny name that I will hunt down at one point or another. No contribution, yet that may just be because he's new.

Alt strikes me as a stereotypical killer, and he's played like this in the past too.. See, i really don't like it alt-less

Morgoth did post this right before the Alt- lynch Obdi has had my bells ringing for a while. He just hasn't posted enough... and he keeps calling us his minions! I have tried to find something on venge.. but I am just not seeiing it. Knowing morgy was inno, and not having played enough to meta reason myself I might put some stock in his observations.

[Vengeance]

Ok a quick post then I am off to Bed. I was thinking about obdi on the way home. He has hardly posted when I was on and when he did it was just a quick pop in and then he was gone. I am thinking that Obdi is scum.... Keeping below the radar and trying to only be mildly helpful is suspicious. If you new players haven't figured it out yet. I find most of everything suspicious. Since I am going to be and will not be on for the rest of the day or at least for my night... See you all in the morning

Vote Obdi

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 4
Just under 13 hours left
11 people still getting down: Baudin, Dktorode, Gavin, Jump Around, Lacedaemonian, Lisheo, Mocker, Obdigore, Silencer, The Dude, Vengence

6 votes for lynch, 5 votes for night

1 vote Lacedaemon: Obdi
4 vote Silencer: JA, Lace, Lisheo, Mocker
1 vote JA: Silencer
1 vote Obdigore: Vengeance



Not voted : Baudin, Dktorode ,Gavin, The Dude,

[The Dude]

ugh only to page 37... looks like this will be a 2 day reread.


@ Venge Don't go!!

[The Dude]

OK, my eyes are going to explode. I'll be back in a few hours.

[Jump Around]

I'm back. During my catchup I found this:

Gavin, on Oct 23 2008, 05:15 AM, said:

Second do Obdi and Vengy interact between each other at all? I'm just curious if they are paired and if so they don't normally say much to each other in thread.

And, few posts later, out of the blue, BAM!

Vengeance, on Oct 23 2008, 05:51 AM, said:

Ok a quick post then I am off to Bed. I was thinking about obdi on the way home. He has hardly posted when I was on and when he did it was just a quick pop in and then he was gone. I am thinking that Obdi is scum.... Keeping below the radar and trying to only be mildly helpful is suspicious. If you new players haven't figured it out yet. I find most of everything suspicious. Since I am going to be and will not be on for the rest of the day or at least for my night... See you all in the morning

Vote Obdi

Not many people seriously thinking of Obdi until now, at least not with the targets we discussed today. It might be a low-risk distancing vote

[Jump Around]

Quick note before I start my re-read:

Silencer's definition of a symp's play (votes like his master after his master) is false, but he's putting there because I guess he needs some case on me because I do put pressure on him (and intend to do that some more)

It's the same as those saying earlier that a symp "defends" his masters by explaining why a case on him is not good. That's not what to look for, those who say things like this just want to weaken individual resolve in players by threatening them with a symp case every time we discuss a player.

[Jump Around]

Early day 1 banter, look at those two interact:

Vengeance, on Oct 16 2008, 09:49 PM, said:

Obdigore, on Oct 16 2008, 01:40 PM, said:

If the Game is on, can Disco-Gore have a role?

Who needs a role, lets vote off JA before he can post....

Vengeance, on Oct 16 2008, 09:52 PM, said:

That's what I am talking about...

Disco Venge's grooving to the Beat that your saying


Vote JA

Obdigore, on Oct 16 2008, 09:56 PM, said:

Disco Gore wonders why the morg, having agreed to the groovy disco plan, has not dropped a vote on the discoless JA?

Vengeance, on Oct 16 2008, 10:01 PM, said:

mocker, on Oct 16 2008, 01:58 PM, said:

haha

is this JA hating just coz of the last game? or is this some deep rooted rageful hatred? lol

In order to preserve sanity it is best if you kill of the weasel before he can post. Trust us this is a fact and can not be argued. Not even by JA..


Edit : Argggggg.....To much talky and not enough voting and now he is here....Arrrggg


Remove Vote

Now THIS is a symp clue:

Obdigore, on Oct 16 2008, 10:18 PM, said:

Vengeance, on Oct 16 2008, 02:16 PM, said:

alt146, on Oct 16 2008, 02:13 PM, said:

Also for the n00bs, altless games normally start of very silly

Obdi's symping JA - get him!!

Your defending JA....Obvious symp....

you're defending me, and mispelling words...obvious symp.

Obdigore, on Oct 16 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

Disco Gore says JA is gone and we should give him a Discoprize and hang him while he sleeps.

That's the only game-content posts I could find from Vengeance in early day 1. Lol-lynching me (or trying to), I don't care, although I was amazed that it came from Vengeance, of all people. I didn't include some posts where he mentions he wants to lol-lynch dibs also.

Yes, it's light early game banter, but by now I'm at post >100 and it becomes a day strategy : get a experienced player lynched in the guise of amusing karma vendetta. It would be perfect for the killers, a good lynch from them, that doesn't give too much info about the voters.

more to come...

[Path-Shaper]

Just under 11 hours left
11 people still getting down: Baudin, Dktorode, Gavin, Jump Around, Lacedaemonian, Lisheo, Mocker, Obdigore, Silencer, The Dude, Vengence

6 votes for lynch, 5 votes for night

1 vote Lacedaemon: Obdi
4 vote Silencer: JA, Lace, Lisheo, Mocker
1 vote JA: Silencer
1 vote Obdigore: Vengeance

Not voted : Baudin, Dktorode ,Gavin, The Dude,

I believe I shall retire to bed soon-ish... you may be modless for several hours, as usual, untill DiBs or somebody else gets on.

[Jump Around]

Now I am at post 160. Obdi is spamming the thread like crazy, while the short 24-hour day passes. THAT is a symp activity.

The only game-related post I find (and the word is loose):

Obdigore, on Oct 17 2008, 12:58 AM, said:

mocker, on Oct 16 2008, 04:57 PM, said:

Obdigore, on Oct 16 2008, 10:53 PM, said:

Gem Windcaster, on Oct 16 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

That's Queen cute as a button to you!

Pretty Pretty Princess cute as a button

And mocker, if we don't kill dibs or JA asap, the innocents always live to regret it.

You ARE an innocent, aren't you?

haha! now thats such a bastard question... if i say yes then u'll ask why i felt the need to answer that question because, as innocence is implicit, that means i'm dodgy, and if i say no then im fucked lol hmm

No if you say yes I will then pressure you to vote for JA or DIBS.

Since you are dodging the question I now proclaim your sympdom is exposed for all to see!
Edit: changed know to now, because the other way is just silly. Morgy in a dress silly.

[Jump Around]

Some Silencer:

Jump Around, on Oct 17 2008, 11:59 AM, said:

Silencer, on Oct 17 2008, 11:57 AM, said:

Based on that, JA, I vote we lynch Tapper. Why? Because it would be fun, of course!

well,. ... vote?

Silencer, on Oct 17 2008, 12:00 PM, said:

O, rite.

Vote Tapper

Saying "let's vote X!" and not voting is classic killer behavior. They like to throw sparks around and see if the fire catches without them needing to blow on it. That's why I called him on it, and look how quickly he reacted, think "oh shit, spotlight!"


Venge is back, the alt lynch is about to begin.

Vengeance, on Oct 17 2008, 05:04 PM, said:

I would also like to point out to the mods that be that JA voted for me an omgus vote, but I never saw him remove it.

Boo-hoo. Killers don't like votes when the speed-time-out lynch is about to start.

Now the lynch victim is getting decided, by people voting or switching their votes around. Silencer is not there, neither is Obdi. Interestingly, Obdigore is usually there at these times.

Venge is around but stays silent. We know he's around because he chimes in with one-liners:

Vengeance, on Oct 17 2008, 07:08 PM, said:

Lacedaemonian, on Oct 17 2008, 10:50 AM, said:

I am voting for Morgoth. She clearly has an agenda and has been circling the dance floor all night.

:Patch:

Now, this is the guy who will complain about the ultimate choice of target, so why not contribute more at the beginning of the train?

more to come...

[Jump Around]

Oh, Obdi IS around, he chimes in with a useless (and quite idiotic) vote:

Obdigore, on Oct 17 2008, 08:01 PM, said:

Remove Vote
Vote Gavin
For symping morgoth.

;0

Alt gets some votes and becomes the probable target. Venge decides to start his show:

Vengeance, on Oct 17 2008, 08:18 PM, said:

I haven't seen anything that has looked dodgy enough to lynch yet, and I doubt that I will. All of the day one cases are meta even more so then they are when we have alts.

So who's your target dammit??? now's the time!

Vengeance, on Oct 17 2008, 08:49 PM, said:

Ok so you guys want to lynch Alt....I don't really think that he has done anything lynch worthy but god knows that I have lynched people for less on day one.

If we have the people then I will vote for him.

Vengeance, on Oct 17 2008, 08:53 PM, said:

drinksinbars, on Oct 17 2008, 12:51 PM, said:

i too will change my vote to alt, theres something sneaky going on there and that boyo was well sneaky in the last game.

i would prefer morgoth though, as i think he is guilty and the dude is partnered or symping him.

Yeah and your well known hate for morgy makes you unbiased...


Fine lets try to get a lynch in before we are timed out


Vote for Alt

Vengeance, on Oct 17 2008, 08:58 PM, said:

Although I seriously doubt that Alt is Scum....After all nobody at all has defended him.

So all that this lynch will give us is a train to look at. Since it is going to be a speed train here at the end. Those of you who have pushed this along are going to be under a lot of suspicion. I am not changing my vote just pointing out what tomorrow will bring.

There you go, even before the CF, no indication that we might have nailed scum (even by dumb luck). Already prepares the next day: "all you voters are nasty, we should look at you yesterday! (except me, I tried my best to prevent this tragedy)"

Neither Obdi nor Silencer are on the train.

Then the joke:

Vengeance, on Oct 17 2008, 09:07 PM, said:

drinksinbars, on Oct 17 2008, 01:05 PM, said:

The Dude, on Oct 17 2008, 07:00 PM, said:

Lacedaemonian, on Oct 17 2008, 10:52 AM, said:

drinksinbars, on Oct 17 2008, 06:51 PM, said:

i too will change my vote to alt, theres something sneaky going on there and that boyo was well sneaky in the last game.

i would prefer morgoth though, as i think he is guilty and the dude is partnered or symping him.

My thoughts too.

I might be new, but if you think I am being that obvious, this early, you are crazy.

i call WIFOM, and you may have just been unfortunate enough to be caught up in morgoths play, which can be sympish intentionally as there are times when appearing to symp people is a viable strategy in a game, but i dont think it works in altless.

@veng - you should remove your vote then, if you dont agree with the vote then dont vote. It aint the end of the world not getting a lynch, but with a possible four evils in play and sides obviously drawing up between morgo and alt its actually quite useful in my eyes to see where it goes. if we dont get a lynch we will probably debate the same two players tomorrow.

I believe that it is to late but you are right. So if it isn't to late I will

Remove vote

killers like to do what innos ask them to do, even if it's dumb (see me asking Silencer to vote earlier and his response), it gives the said inno impression that you're nice and cooperating.

[Jump Around]

Vengeance then starts talking sense, now, that the lynch train has passed.

First he makes a case on Lace (a few hours late, but still), which I won't quote because it's biiig.

Then:

Vengeance, on Oct 17 2008, 10:12 PM, said:

Lisheo, on Oct 17 2008, 02:07 PM, said:

The interesting thing is that lace didn't vote for Alt, he wasn't just trigger happy, as far as I can see, he just voted Morgoth... Not sure what that means tho.

I am thinking that it means that he is a first time symp. His master expressed some interest in Morgy. (who didn't) and so lace has kept after him. To both inform his master who he is and to make sure that there is enough votes on his masters target to get the job done. He only removed his vote once it was totally obvious that Alt had been lynched.



Edited to add: that it means

Vengeance, on Oct 17 2008, 10:19 PM, said:

Lisheo, on Oct 17 2008, 02:16 PM, said:

I see your point, but now were faced with a tough decision: If he is a symp, by pointing that out, he knows were onto his playing style and we probably won't get any more obvious evidence;vIf he's not a symp and voted just cus Morgy already got a vote or two and is being stubborn, then we wont be able to tell unless his Master gives us another hint. So do we lynch a possible innocent now or what? Cus I had my moment of lynch-happiness already, I'm thinking we cant jump into another lynch. So, what do we do?

We make cases see how people respond to them. If there defenses make sense then we let them be if their defenses don't then we put pressure on them by voting for them. If they still don't respond with a decent defense then we lynch them. Eventually one of the killers will make a mistake and give themselves away. You just have to take a hard look at peoples posts and their relationships to others.


Also since we are going into the weekend I wouldn't expect anther quick lynch like this one. The quick ones are the ones that happen at the either the end of a day or at the end of a game when emotions are high.

Vengeance, on Oct 17 2008, 10:57 PM, said:

Lacedaemonian, on Oct 17 2008, 02:48 PM, said:

There was a lot of voting and removal of voting going on. I presume this is normal?

It is normal on a first day. Nobody has anything at all to go off of so you toss a vote on someone to see how they will react and if it is suspicious then you keep it there. This game was a little different cause of the huge meta factor. But yes it is normal on the first day of a game how else do you see were people stand in relation to one another. One of the toughest first days was the game that only allowed us one vote per day....Brutal first day.

Well, you see, he can talk sense and reason when his opinions are not at a crucial time for the game. Killers hate making decisions that stick and impact the game.

Now I skip many posts, where he's adding pressure to Lace.

Then, next day:

Vengeance, on Oct 18 2008, 06:54 PM, said:

Your behavior in removing your vote from morgy after the lynch had occurred is what was scummy. You keep saying that you voting morgy as a joke but really that is all you did on day one. All of your posts were one sentence and you contributed nothing to anything.


Vote Lacedaemonian

nothing wrong there, just putting it for completeness.

Damned, this is taking time... I'm at post 1060 now and I have to go

Yes, I focused on Venge and Obdi, because otherwise it's impossible. You think someone else is a killer, do the same for them. As for the lack of Obdi quotes, I dare you to find Obdi game-related posts that I missed in the first 1000 posts.

Quick summary of what comes after, I'll post the quotes later:

End of day 2, no lynch, even though there were 2 trains on 2 innos. The killers want inno lynches, it brings them closer to victory, but there are no finders, so little to risk at night and all to gain of a no-CF. I think the lynches failed because the scum were already each on their own train and refused to change and attract attention.

Obdi and Venge have more or less ignored each other, and at the slightest hint of association by Gavin, a vote appears out of the blue.

You know what, Vengeance? I call your bluff

vote Obdigore

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 4, 10 hours left
11 people still getting down: Baudin, Dktorode, Gavin, Jump Around, Lacedaemonian, Lisheo, Mocker, Obdigore, Silencer, The Dude, Vengence

6 votes for lynch, 5 votes for night

1 vote Lacedaemon: Obdi
4 vote Silencer: JA, Lace, Lisheo, Mocker
1 vote JA: Silencer
1 vote Obdigore: Vengeance

JA, you must unvote in order to vote Obdigore.

Not voted : Baudin, Dktorode ,Gavin, The Dude,

this is Ment, going to bed, as it's 2 AM in Canadaland... at this point, a Saffer or GMT mod should arrive soon.

[Silencer]

JA, I happened to be on then. I wasn't going to be on for ages after that. Hence, I voted. I genuinely forgot to vote. So shoot me. (Or lynch....)

And now you're voting for Obdi....I see you making shit up in those last couple of posts...and I'm thinking, "Hey! I'll post saying that he's pushing me, so everbody should lynch him tomorrow when I turn up inno!" - and then you vote Obdi? I think YOU are distancing. You're just doing in in the guise of making Venge freak out. He also just said he wouldn't be around for a while.

[Gavin]

Well thank you for that interesting wrap up there JA of the first 1000 posts. Only another 940 odd to go...

Vengys vote is a little strange out of the blue like that. I think there are three ways to interupt it.

1) Distance as you said
2) Trying to move the focus from Silencer who was at the time T-2.
3) Geninue vote.

Which one it is I'm not sure. I will need to think about this before placing my vote. I'm vaguely leaning towards calling the bluff as well, it just seems such a strange thing for Veng to do.

[The Dude]

Back. Interesting logic JA. I will go back and look at some obdi quotes. brb.

EDIT for spelling

This post has been edited by The Dude: 23 October 2008 - 06:10 AM