[Gavin]

So its night and we didn't get a lynch on Day 2, with a CF and presumably no Finders? I have to say thats a little disappointing, we only get info from lynches and NKs and we lost one source there.

Its making me believe that one of the 4 up for lynch was a killer and there was enough misdirection around to stop the lynch going ahead.
These are the 4 and the votes.

4 Votes Morgoth: DiBs, Lacedaemonian, Baudin, The Dude
4 Votes Lacedaemonian: Vengeance, Gem Windcaster, Tapper, Obdigore
4 Votes Gem: Silencer, Yellow, Gavin, Morgoth
2 votes Vengeance: Jump Around, Dktorode

Since I made the case on Gem and have since Yellow had added to it, I am inclined to think its Gem, especially after Tapper complimented the case, voted then removed the vote and switched around. I guess we'll wait and see what Night will bring first.

[Silencer]

Argh. Missed the whole day.

[Path-Shaper]

4 hours and 5 minutes left of night

16 funkstars getting groovy: Baudin,Dktorode, DrinksinBars, Gavin, Gem, Jump Around, Lacedaemonian, Lisheo, Mocker, Morgoth, Obdigore Silencer, Tapper, The Dude,Vengeance, Yellow,

Please get your song requests to the DJ pronto so that the party can REALLY get started (I.E. Provisionals are a good thing people)

[Yellow]

No lynch? That's dull as fuck, and gives us no info.

@Mocker, you seem to be too unwilling to lynch people. What are you doing here if you're not going to lynch? That's what innos do, that's how we get information.

I think failing to lynch Gem was a mistake. She has done nothing but bat her eyelids at people since the game started, and a lot of the lads are falling for it. She adds nothing to the game, even if she is an inno (which I don't believe her to be).

This post has been edited by Yellow: 21 October 2008 - 06:37 AM

[Jump Around]

Urgh, no lynch.

There are no finders, people. Without lynches, a day is a dead inno, and that's that. I seriously doubt the killers will send drunk PMs to the mod and put fire to one another.

I read the end of day, and I don't like Obdigore's play.

Shows up, complains about spam (when I don't think day 2 was that spammy, on the contrary). Then spams some with hours left in the day (posts 1109 and on).

Then "participates", i.e. asks players to point him to this or that post, because that sounds important and serious, while wasting time.

Then, with a tie 4-4 between Lace and Gem, votes Lace. All the Lace votes are leftover of earlier in the day, no-one is talking about Lace for a long time, so I seriously doubt that would help a lynch.

Him and Vengeance continue to paint me as the "lol lynch", which apparently doesn't get old:

Obdigore, on Oct 20 2008, 11:14 PM, said:

Ok, some thoughts on the Morgy/Dibs issue.

DIBs has a point that Morgy has been doing funky things, but he always does. Morgy has a point that DIBs is like a dog on a jugular, he is not relenting, and ignoring everything else. But he always does. That is DIBS' style of inno play, which leads me AWAY from both of those two, because they are both innos trying to figure out HOW the other is a killer.

I'm going to go find the case on Lace now, post numbers about where that one is?

PS - if these are the quality of all the "cases", which is what I gathered from my skimming, I think we should kill JA while he sleeps and be done with it.

Obdigore, on Oct 21 2008, 01:55 AM, said:

Gem Windcaster, on Oct 20 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

Why don't we all speed lynch JA!

Sounds fun but I doubt we would get it... and I think we have seven minutes left.

Anyways, that's my impression from catching up the thread.


To answer Vengeance:

Vengeance, on Oct 20 2008, 10:35 PM, said:

JA that comes into being later on in the game not on the first day. If a killer is going to get got then his symp will usually try almost anything to get his boss to live through the first night. I have done it and so have you....er.....Ok well at least I have...

After I voted I went back and took a look at the start of his train. Nobody spoke against it...period...If he had been a killer someone would have...If he was a symp then no one would have....Ergo I figured that he was probably going to come up innocent. I didn't see him being a symp and drawing that much attention day one.

Wow, now he's telling us how evil plays, so that he can show us why he deduced that the person we were about to lynch was inno so he could start pointing who the "suspicious" voters are.

So... Venge... many people came to Gem' defense during the votes... Many people came to Morgy's defense during the votes... Many people came to Lace's defense during the votes... OMG Y'ALL EVIL!!!!

And, ironically, someone came to Alt defense during his lynch, that was you. Did that transform Alt from inno to evil?

Anyways, that's moot, it seems the others don't see it. Or maybe you're just an inno with strange reasonings.

[Gavin]

I agree with the Odbigore stuff after rereading, he pointed fingers around the place and seemed to be doing a bit of symping there.

I find it easy to distracted and focus on one person and everything seems to build up a case against that person. So I'm hoping to see some other peoples input, but for me it looked like both Tapper and Odbi redirected away from Gem and both voted Lace a lynch that was never going to go ahead.

For me team evil would be looking like, Gem, Tapper, Obdi as symp, and likely one of Morgoth or Vengeance.

I'd be interested in other peoples thoughts on this.

[Tapper]

Gavin, I switched my votes from Gem, which was mainly because of the similarity between her and my own actions, to Lacedaemonian again - not because of the old reasons, but because he was the only person (with DiBs to a far lower degree) who consistently went to work with the second part of the day 1 lynch train, which, in my humble opinion, is the least important part.

So, basically, I moved from someone who might be scum (Gem) and who hasn't been very productive (but that can change) and who mirrored my own actions (fake symping, for what?), to someone who used the weekend and a part of monday to set up an accusation of the second part of the lynch train on day 1 as Morgoth's lackeys. It's effects through the day have been noticeable; Venge is judged scum, I have been in doubt, Gem is. We're 3 of the last 5 to vote for J_slr. DiBs and Mocker complement the 5.

It doesn't connect and is far too obvious. More, it leaves out the first 5 players voting for Morgoth in less than two hours and the first 4 people other than you following you yourself on your own self-admitted not particularly good case on alt146, which you personally haven't commented on, either. That's 9 players (Lisheo was on both, I think) left out, and for what reason? None I can see.

For my vote, following from my game summary, I could have selected any of the people jumping on the Morgoth train or any of the people jumping on your J_slr train. I settled on Lacedaemonian because he had the added benefit of a couple of votes on him and the consistent singling out of people on the second part of the alt lynch train.

[Jump Around]

Gavin, on Oct 21 2008, 10:10 AM, said:

For me team evil would be looking like, Gem, Tapper, Obdi as symp, and likely one of Morgoth or Vengeance.

I'd be interested in other peoples thoughts on this.

Well, possibly. Or they are all innos. Or part innos in good faith and part evil who hide in the group.

That's the thing, votes happen, things happen. I'm not saying to point a finger with 2 hours left and railroad a random DiscoDancer, but if you have all these things happening, and you don't get a CF somewhere to put the pieces to place, then you have another day of that this or that player is suspicious if that one is guilty.

I guess I should have switched to Gem, the Vengeance thing died as soon as I left to bed, which I couldn't know (and didn't expect, a few other mentioned during the day they saw my (and dktorode's) point)

[Jump Around]

Gavin, on Oct 21 2008, 05:29 AM, said:

So its night and we didn't get a lynch on Day 2, with a CF and presumably no Finders? I have to say thats a little disappointing, we only get info from lynches and NKs and we lost one source there.

Its making me believe that one of the 4 up for lynch was a killer and there was enough misdirection around to stop the lynch going ahead.
These are the 4 and the votes.

4 Votes Morgoth: DiBs, Lacedaemonian, Baudin, The Dude
4 Votes Lacedaemonian: Vengeance, Gem Windcaster, Tapper, Obdigore
4 Votes Gem: Silencer, Yellow, Gavin, Morgoth
2 votes Vengeance: Jump Around, Dktorode

Since I made the case on Gem and have since Yellow had added to it, I am inclined to think its Gem, especially after Tapper complimented the case, voted then removed the vote and switched around. I guess we'll wait and see what Night will bring first.

Oh, I missed this the first time around. I thought it was a Grief vote recap (Put avatars, dammit!)

I have to say I agree with what you're saying. I think the importance of lynches is clear enough in player's head on this board, instead of wasting my time repeating it I think I should do like you and wonder why it didn't happen this time around.

I do believe there's a killer somewhere within these fours, too.

Edit to avoid the triple-post.

Venge and Gem are the two I found suspicious at the time I went to bed, and Obdi is the one whose behavior I didn't like after that. And look:

4 Votes Lacedaemonian: Vengeance, Gem Windcaster, Tapper, Obdigore

This post has been edited by Jump Around: 21 October 2008 - 07:48 AM

[Gavin]

Tapper, on Oct 21 2008, 03:11 PM, said:

Gavin, I switched my votes from Gem, which was mainly because of the similarity between her and my own actions, to Lacedaemonian again - not because of the old reasons, but because he was the only person (with DiBs to a far lower degree) who consistently went to work with the second part of the day 1 lynch train, which, in my humble opinion, is the least important part.

So, basically, I moved from someone who might be scum (Gem) and who hasn't been very productive (but that can change) and who mirrored my own actions (fake symping, for what?), to someone who used the weekend and a part of monday to set up an accusation of the second part of the lynch train on day 1 as Morgoth's lackeys. It's effects through the day have been noticeable; Venge is judged scum, I have been in doubt, Gem is. We're 3 of the last 5 to vote for J_slr. DiBs and Mocker complement the 5.

It doesn't connect and is far too obvious. More, it leaves out the first 5 players voting for Morgoth in less than two hours and the first 4 people other than you following you yourself on your own self-admitted not particularly good case on alt146, which you personally haven't commented on, either. That's 9 players (Lisheo was on both, I think) left out, and for what reason? None I can see.

For my vote, following from my game summary, I could have selected any of the people jumping on the Morgoth train or any of the people jumping on your J_slr train. I settled on Lacedaemonian because he had the added benefit of a couple of votes on him and the consistent singling out of people on the second part of the alt lynch train.

Perhaps you need to reread what Yellow and I have been posting with regards to Gem. Who said Gem has been fake symping people? We are saying Gem is behaving like a killer. She was poking away at Morgoth and then moved to Alt but not voting to start with. Put on the hammer vote, then voting onto Lace on a safish train, also isn't posting content etc etc. Your removing the vote and then switching and defending her is classic killer stuff as well.

We had more or less put the Lace thing to rest and moved on, there was no way to get a lynch of him at that late stage, but not voting would have been strange so you and Obdi both went for him.

As to the Alt146 case. Yes it wasn't a good case, it was Day 1. Unless someone makes an obvious rules slip, or is confused by their role PM, there is never a good Day 1 case. However people were voting Morgoth on Day 1 specifically because he had posted to Spoilers (yes Dibs had some other weak stuff as well but thats the reason people were giving in their posts). Thats just a terrible reason for it, and I moved to the person who switched so quickly onto what was a extremely weak and disgraceful case to make. The first person I saw do it was Alt146 so I voted accordingly. I went to bed and everyone else seemed to jump on it after. A lot of people just try and avoid dying on Day 1, and I think its often a case of better him than me in the Day 1 voting and probably some opportunistic team evil.


Good point on Lisheo, trouble is they are so prolific its hard to make a case on them, but they seem to have voted for just about everyone. Also they are a noob so I sometimes dimiss them for their own admittedy noob excitement. Maybe I need to rethink that policy.

Jump Around, on Oct 21 2008, 03:19 PM, said:

Gavin, on Oct 21 2008, 10:10 AM, said:

For me team evil would be looking like, Gem, Tapper, Obdi as symp, and likely one of Morgoth or Vengeance.

I'd be interested in other peoples thoughts on this.

Well, possibly. Or they are all innos. Or part innos in good faith and part evil who hide in the group.

That's the thing, votes happen, things happen. I'm not saying to point a finger with 2 hours left and railroad a random DiscoDancer, but if you have all these things happening, and you don't get a CF somewhere to put the pieces to place, then you have another day of that this or that player is suspicious if that one is guilty.

I guess I should have switched to Gem, the Vengeance thing died as soon as I left to bed, which I couldn't know (and didn't expect, a few other mentioned during the day they saw my (and dktorode's) point)

Well I wouldn't write their names in stone as being our group of evil and suggest we lynch them in the order I presented, I like to think that certainly there is suspicious activity in the group mentioned and we get some discussion on it. Much like Dibs when he listed who he thought his evil were.

It is disappointing we didn't get a lynch, next day again we'll be agonising probably over the same group of people with the same infomation using what info we get from the NK if anything. So its just a day wasted really.

[dktorode]

Damn...couldnt log in with phone lastnight.

It kept auto refreshing like it was stuck in a logic loop...
Its still night?
No lynch?

Very disappointing...

[dktorode]

gonna catch up

[Tapper]

Actually, the vote-for-Morgy-cause-he-posted-to-spoiler was done by Yellow and I think he was the 3rd or 4th on the Morgoth train. (probably third, since alt146 and Baudin came after that and Morgoth had 5 votes in the end).

Quote

We had more or less put the Lace thing to rest and moved on, there was no way to get a lynch of him at that late stage, but not voting would have been strange so you and Obdi both went for him.

Ah, but I think my summary of the game came after you'd logged out. My vote at the least was not motivated by the 'old' reasons. I think I mentioned that above. Nothing wrong with voting for the same person for new reasons, in my book.

Will do a re-read of your Gem-case. I remember thinking it was a good case when i read it. Must admit, what mostly stuck to me though was having my every move seemingly copied by Gem throughout the weekend, and then reading that the roles were reversed on day 1, so dismissed that as bad luck or fake symping through day 2.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 21 October 2008 - 08:01 AM

[drinksinbars]

the way i see it those that didnt get a lynch last night are playing a very coutner productive game. Any of the three lynches would have benefitted the team by the cf.

4 Votes Morgoth: DiBs, Lacedaemonian, Baudin, The Dude
4 Votes Lacedaemonian: Vengeance, Gem Windcaster, Tapper, Obdigore
4 Votes Gem: Silencer, Yellow, Gavin, Morgoth

(2 votes Vengeance: Jump Around, Dktorode) not going anywhere

If morgoth had of went an inno verdict would have vindicated many of the players defending him two days running (Tapper, Gem) while a guilty verdict would have cleared lace and myself and baudin while semiclearing the dude who was accused of ulterior motives for his vote. A guilty would have pushed pressure on tapper and gem, as well as obdigore who refused to take out gem.

if lace had of been lynched and came back inno all four of these voters would have been in trouble, the reasoning wasnt strong, and the lynch would have looked like it was taking pressure from morgot, so we may have found out a lot of info while stopping day 3 being a repeat of day 2. If lace had been guilty, it would have cleared all these players of suspicion, especially veng who was so adamant about voting lace while implicated me and possibly yellow, silencer and gavin as complicite.

finally we have what i feel is the lynch pin vote - gem, inno or guilty she has somehow become the centre of attention with all sides lined up around her. We had a few players flat out refusing the vote toward the end, while we tapper make his vote and remove it. If gem is inno it clears a fair few players (obdi and mocker, especially who refused to vote where a kilelr would have imho) if guilty she implicates a good number of people in suspicion while drawing focus off players like lace and morgo and their trains.

I had tried to get on last night, but my stupid phone decide page 22 was the best thing since sliced bread and i could swap forward or back for some reaosn and so went to bed about 11 not knowing what was going on. My vote though wouldnt have counted for shit, but there you go.

@yellow -im voting in green grabs everones marbles

[Path-Shaper]

Three hours left of night. I know this conflicts with the time stated in the previous post, but I think that was mental who hasn't slept in two days. Night started at 1am my time and it is now 10am.

Please send in your song requests, the DJ is losing his groove and the dancers are getting tired of the same old jam.

[drinksinbars]

dktorode, on Oct 21 2008, 08:53 AM, said:

Damn...couldnt log in with phone lastnight.

It kept auto refreshing like it was stuck in a logic loop...
Its still night?
No lynch?

Very disappointing...

same thing happened to me - it kept through me back to like page 22??? couldnt navigate past then.

[Jump Around]

Your phones could not keep up with THE GROOVE

[dktorode]

Vengeance, on Oct 20 2008, 10:21 PM, said:

My vote was about 10 minutes before the hammer vote. I had gone back and looked harder at Alt. I wasn't in the middle of the train I was down at the caboose. I didn't harass anyone but myself. It was basically me having a conversation with myself and Dibs. Who did I harass nobody. I did say that I thought that he was going to come up innocent. Which seems to be the whole argument against me. Sweet jesus how many times have we lynched people who turned up innocent. If you can't make a guess that a person who doesn't have anyone defending them and is about to get lynched in the last half of an hour on day one is in all probability going to be innocent you need serious help.

Aaah you see thats the thing, everyone knows that someone "could" be inno. So whats the point of stating it out aloud!! You voted for him! Why shout to the heavens that he is probably inno?
Because there is (usually) an overriding NEED for a killer to SEEM more inno when he places his votes. I spot these things because i have bloody well done them myself.
these early on mistakes are the only real clues i pick up. As there is very little else to go on. Its just a killer characteristic that i have noticed, one of many many characteristics.

Does this make you a killer for sure?....hell no. Inno's do show killer characteristics every now and again. But this is the nature of the game. And really nothing you say can trully change the fact that
even after you felt he was inno....you didnt remove your vote, except conveniently when it was too late (another thing i can see a killer doing...)
This early on its the best thing ive seen so far, as far as finding a killer goes.

[Morgoth]

It's still night? Bah, I'll go get lunch

[dktorode]

Tapper, on Oct 20 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

Instead, the middle part has been enlargened: Venge, Gem, me as diverting attention away from Morgoth. Never mind that two of the three had pledged their vote in the exact same way as they did on Morgoth: show us the lynch, and we vote. The mercenaries, the ones who want a lynch and didn't care who.
So, either the ones enlargening this middle/second part of the second train wanted to divert attention from the train starters or from the first train, and/or the starters of the second train wanted a diversion resulting in a lynch/ no lynch at all, or they were using the presence of certain individuals on the second train to push for a lynch. Your call.

Do you really think I...or anyone else here for that matter take stock in your "pledge"??

I have pledge MANY times as a killer that i would lynch my partner. This is a standard thing to do....pledging to lynch someone and actually doing it is two different things.