[Tiste Simeon]

 Maark Abbott, on 30 January 2024 - 07:40 AM, said:

My main query is how does someone get so famous over such shit music

Like she makes Ed Sheeran sound halfway tolerable and that's an achievement in and of itself

Woah woah woah. I am far from a Swifty but Ed Sheeran is the absolute pits in terms of beige, bland pop.

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: 30 January 2024 - 09:03 AM

[Maark Abbott]

 Tiste Simeon, on 30 January 2024 - 09:02 AM, said:

 Maark Abbott, on 30 January 2024 - 07:40 AM, said:

My main query is how does someone get so famous over such shit music

Like she makes Ed Sheeran sound halfway tolerable and that's an achievement in and of itself

Woah woah woah. I am far from a Swifty but Ed Sheeran is the absolute pits in terms of beige, bland pop.

And yet somehow Swift makes him seem tolerable

How

HOW

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

 Tiste Simeon, on 30 January 2024 - 09:02 AM, said:

 Maark Abbott, on 30 January 2024 - 07:40 AM, said:

My main query is how does someone get so famous over such shit music

Like she makes Ed Sheeran sound halfway tolerable and that's an achievement in and of itself

Woah woah woah. I am far from a Swifty but Ed Sheeran is the absolute pits in terms of beige, bland pop.

His falsetto's pretty decent, though it's not my 'cup of meat'....

Quote

That level of achievement is compelling—it's hard not to be interested. Extreme feats of excellence, like summiting Everest, trigger our curiosity. [...]

Taylor Swift's fans [...] have powerful emotions that transcend her music. Swifties are attached to Taylor Swift, the person[...] best described as a parasocial relationship.

Parasocial relationships are one-sided connections. Fans feel strong emotional attachments, or what psychologists [...] argued was the "illusion of intimacy" created through media. Social media amplifies the sense of intimacy by seeming like authentic interpersonal connections.

[...]

Swift has done a masterful job of using all media—not just her music— to create a sense of intimacy and vulnerability, enhancing the tendency of her fans to feel they know her personally, even though it is inherently one-sided. Swift's music reflects her life experiences, and she owns her emotions, increasing her relatability.

Why Do We Care Who Taylor Swift Dates? (fielding.edu)

From Taylor Swift's op-ed in the Wall Street Journal:

Quote

I think forming a bond with fans in the future will come in the form of constantly providing them with the element of surprise. No, I did not say "shock"; I said "surprise." I believe couples can stay in love for decades if they just continue to surprise each other, so why can't this love affair exist between an artist and their fans?

Taylor Swift WSJ Op-Ed (businessinsider.com)

However, the mostly-parasocial relationship is not completely one-sided; there is some (extremely asymmetrical) stochastic terrorism reciprocity (comparable to a lottery):

Quote

Swift earned nearly $2 billion this year through her music, tour and accompanying tour film and merch — before even accounting for additional revenue from things like synchs and sponsorships.

[... She has] donated to charities and struggling individuals alike, and showered her fans with lavish presents in a 2014 gift-giving extravaganza known by her fandom as "Swiftmas."

She's also been known to be generous with her time, whether it's meeting fans after almost every show of her pre-Eras tours completely free of charge, or making surprise appearances at unsuspecting Swifties' weddings, bridal showers or engagement parties. There have also been times where fans have opened their front doors to find the musician waiting outside, as well as days spent dropping in to cheer up patients at hospitals.

A Timeline of Taylor Swift's Generosity – Billboard

Quote

How, in just one year, did Swift transition from a Fall Out Boy guest star in a goofy costume to a [...] pop princess [and fancy underwear model ...] Swift had already been spending her whole summer [...] with a coterie of new best friends, almost all of whom were models and who had seemingly come out of nowhere[...]

[...] In order to make her coronation as Pop Princess of the World complete, Swift knew in 2014 that she couldn't just drop an immaculate album and let the songs speak for themselves; she had to transition her public-facing identity away from Lovelorn Dork (the type who'd noodle over many different genres to spell out heartbreak, as she did on her previous album, Red) and towards Model-Gorgeous Single Girl, a Pop Princess archetype if ever there was one.

[...]

What if I told you she's a mastermind?

How Taylor Swift Turned Herself Into a Victoria's Secret Model (yahoo.com)

But most importantly IMO:

Quote

I didn't stream a single song from Taylor Swift this past year on Spotify. Yet, I seemed to have paid her royalties.

[...] 80% of what I paid into the pool to be distributed as royalties went to other artists.

Since Swift scooped up around 1.3% of Spotify's royalties, that means I contributed around 63 cents toward her $131 million in royalties from Spotify even though I didn't listen to her for one second last year.

Taylor Swift made money off me on Spotify but I never streamed her music (inquirer.com)

No one needs that much money, especially not a singer-songwriter. Since she's not shy about bragging about giving to charity, she's almost certainly not redistributing any of her riches to the numerous non-superstar musicians who are getting shit pay from the streaming services. But she'd rather be #1, and let anyone who might challenge her supremacy languish in poverty and (undesired) obscurity.



[Edit: to clarify: in that last quote, 80% of what they paid to Spotify to be distributed as royalties went to artists that they didn't listen to at all.]

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 30 January 2024 - 01:30 PM

[Abyss]

 Maark Abbott, on 30 January 2024 - 12:36 PM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 30 January 2024 - 09:02 AM, said:

 Maark Abbott, on 30 January 2024 - 07:40 AM, said:

My main query is how does someone get so famous over such shit music

Like she makes Ed Sheeran sound halfway tolerable and that's an achievement in and of itself

Woah woah woah. I am far from a Swifty but Ed Sheeran is the absolute pits in terms of beige, bland pop.

And yet somehow Swift makes him seem tolerable

How

HOW

Quicktidal - we know you're out there somewhere, reading this... Maark doesn't mean it. He doesn't understand. Please don't hurt him too badly.

[Slow Ben]

Taylor rules.

[Maark Abbott]

 Abyss, on 30 January 2024 - 02:51 PM, said:

 Maark Abbott, on 30 January 2024 - 12:36 PM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 30 January 2024 - 09:02 AM, said:

 Maark Abbott, on 30 January 2024 - 07:40 AM, said:

My main query is how does someone get so famous over such shit music

Like she makes Ed Sheeran sound halfway tolerable and that's an achievement in and of itself

Woah woah woah. I am far from a Swifty but Ed Sheeran is the absolute pits in terms of beige, bland pop.

And yet somehow Swift makes him seem tolerable

How

HOW

Quicktidal - we know you're out there somewhere, reading this... Maark doesn't mean it. He doesn't understand. Please don't hurt him too badly.

No, I mean it, with every fibre of my being.

Come, Quickevar, friend or traitor, come.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

 Tiste Simeon, on 30 January 2024 - 09:02 AM, said:

 Maark Abbott, on 30 January 2024 - 07:40 AM, said:

My main query is how does someone get so famous over such shit music

Like she makes Ed Sheeran sound halfway tolerable and that's an achievement in and of itself

Woah woah woah. I am far from a Swifty but Ed Sheeran is the absolute pits in terms of beige, bland pop.

One of Mr NAB's friends has a wife who has got to her mid-30s still having a very teenage outlook on music i.e. constantly using liking rock or other "cool" music (her definition being "not things anyone else in the room likes") as a reason why she's so much more interesting than everyone else, being genuinely miffed if you've heard of a band she thinks is super unknown etc.

In the otherwise not particularly enjoyable time I am obliged to spend in her company, the multiple times I've watched her try to convince a room full of people that Ed Sheeran is rock really - because she likes him, and can't bear to have it thought she likes anything as "basic" (her words) as generic pop music - have been shining little lights of hilarity in the dark

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 31 January 2024 - 11:27 AM

[Tiste Simeon]

Oh man that just sounds hideously cringe.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

 Tiste Simeon, on 31 January 2024 - 01:15 PM, said:

Oh man that just sounds hideously cringe.

You are correct! Exposure to her over the last four years has honestly given me something of a twitch whenever I hear the word "basic"

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 31 January 2024 - 02:27 PM

[Gorefest]

Ed Sheeran is about as rock as the seaside confectionery.

[worry]

That seems like a weird thing to say even if you like his music. I haven't heard that many of his songs, I suppose, but pretty much all of them were R&B-tinged pop.

[Gorefest]

 worry, on 31 January 2024 - 04:37 PM, said:

That seems like a weird thing to say even if you like his music. I haven't heard that many of his songs, I suppose, but pretty much all of them were R&B-tinged pop.

He uses a guitar. For some people, that equates it to rock. Some people also vote for Trump, think the Earth is flat and that if the ice cream van plays music, it is out of ice cream.

[Mezla PigDog]

Thanks to this thread I have been listening to Taylor Swift all afternoon whilst doing some work. I know more of her songs than I thought I did. I don't mind her too much - as contemporary pop goes. Isn't all the nonsense surrounding her just the same as Madonna at her peak?

Edit to add that I realise I just outed myself for being ancient if I remember Madonna hype.

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 31 January 2024 - 06:30 PM

[Cyphon]

Didn't Madonna push societal boundaries and Social norms though? I claim no swift expertise but it doesn't strike me that she's done that to make her an icon like Madonna.

[Lady Bliss]

 Mezla PigDog, on 31 January 2024 - 06:28 PM, said:

Thanks to this thread I have been listening to Taylor Swift all afternoon whilst doing some work. I know more of her songs than I thought I did. I don't mind her too much - as contemporary pop goes. Isn't all the nonsense surrounding her just the same as Madonna at her peak?

Edit to add that I realise I just outed myself for being ancient if I remember Madonna hype.

Yeah but Madonna pushed the envelope.

[Mezla PigDog]

The video for Like A Prayer was pushing boundaries and then the sexualised way she promoted herself was kind of groundbreaking. I have read various middle class women saying Taylor Swift is a feminist and I'd say given where feminism has moved to since Madonna's time (arguably backwards in many ways) it is on a par. Like taking back control of her rights be re-recording stuff and generally owning her own rights which is taking Madonna "female empowerment and giving zero fucks" to it's modern day zenith. She was kind of cancelled after that spat with Kanye when she got that award and he said Beyonce should have won it - which wasn't her fault - and history looks back on that and sees an arsehole guy bullying a young girl now, I think.

So meh. She's not doing to bad and remember Madonna took a long time to be put on her pedestal. At the height of her most "groundbreaking" stuff I am pretty sure people who didnt already like pop music thought she was an attention seeking slut.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

 Mezla PigDog, on 31 January 2024 - 06:58 PM, said:

The video for Like A Prayer was pushing boundaries and then the sexualised way she promoted herself was kind of groundbreaking. I have read various middle class women saying Taylor Swift is a feminist and I'd say given where feminism has moved to since Madonna's time (arguably backwards in many ways) it is on a par. Like taking back control of her rights be re-recording stuff and generally owning her own rights which is taking Madonna "female empowerment and giving zero fucks" to it's modern day zenith. She was kind of cancelled after that spat with Kanye when she got that award and he said Beyonce should have won it - which wasn't her fault - and history looks back on that and sees an arsehole guy bullying a young girl now, I think.

So meh. She's not doing to bad and remember Madonna took a long time to be put on her pedestal. At the height of her most "groundbreaking" stuff I am pretty sure people who didnt already like pop music thought she was an attention seeking slut.

Re-recording her stuff so she could profit from it doesn't seem much like 'female empowerment' or even general 'artist empowerment' so much as 'Taylor Swift empowerment'---and profit. For someone who's already ultrawealthy. She hasn't done anything afaik to help other artists in general or women do much of anything similar with the titanic amounts of money she's been making. Though I'd be happy to be proven wrong about that.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 31 January 2024 - 07:04 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

It's kind of empowering when women historically get paid less for the same work and typically settle for less than men in the corporate space. Plus the male domination of the music industry. Like, why shouldn't she own her own talent? I don't think Madonna is that famed for giving away cash - she uses it to buy brown kids, if memory serves.

I am curious to wonder if she was male and making similar career moves would she by regarded in the same negative way?

[Tiste Simeon]

It's interesting though as people are now holding her up as some absolute hero of the people and the words "the first ethical billionaire" and on the surface there's nothing too shady.

Then you see how much carbon emissions her private jet is responsible for...

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

 Mezla PigDog, on 31 January 2024 - 07:13 PM, said:

It's kind of empowering when women historically get paid less for the same work and typically settle for less than men in the corporate space. Plus the male domination of the music industry. Like, why shouldn't she own her own talent? I don't think Madonna is that famed for giving away cash - she uses it to buy brown kids, if memory serves.

I am curious to wonder if she was male and making similar career moves would she by regarded in the same negative way?

Aside from a feeling of empowerment by proxy, I've seen no evidence of her materially empowering other women or artists to do anything similar. Most women and most artists can't do what TS actually did, though I'd suppose they could be inspired to take analogous actions. It would be interesting to study whether and to what extent that actually happens, relative to other forms of capital investment in women's empowerment.

'Regarded in the same negative way'---by the media? She's not 'regarded in a negative way', just the opposite:

Quote

[...] near-universal critical adoration of Swift in the media – perhaps most notably for her re-recording series. [...]

But while Swift's re-recordings could have been a demand for collective change, in reality they seem like little more than an exercise in egotism and greed, repackaged as "empowerment". The blazing light of her moral crusade is dimmed considerably when you look at the myriad ways Swift profits off the exercise, which include encouraging her fans to buy multiple vinyl and CD editions of the same albums in different colours to access "collectible artwork" (read: flimsy printed inserts) and bonus tracks, and charging £15.99 to rent (not buy) her latest tour film. Add to this the opportunistic merchandise sold through an online shop specific to each re-release: musical snow globes, acrylic knitwear, £25 keyrings. No one is obligated to buy these things – but Swift is calculated in framing herself as a wronged party, and her fans' purchasing power as the only way to right said wrong. The gilded veneer of feminist empowerment that hangs over the project is nothing but scratch-card foil, easily rubbed away to reveal the grubby industry-standard capitalism underneath. And yet we're expected not to acknowledge this – and so is the media.

[...] despite his dominant commercial position, the mainstream music press would never laud a hugely successful artist like, say, Ed Sheeran. Sheeran, despite his international fame and popularity, simply doesn't inspire the kind of fervent dedication that would lead a fan base to seize on all mentions of his name, whether they're in euphoria over a positive review or Eumenidean wrath over a snub.

For those pop stars who do, there can be no critical insight, no oversight, no examination.

Taylor Swift's hollow empowerment narrative - Hannah Williams - New Statesman

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 31 January 2024 - 07:33 PM