[amirebram]

There are quite a few things in that prophecy. Allow me to quote it line by line: "Children of Mother Taim lost in all that they surrendered." This line I think refers to the price they paid by drinking Taim's blood to become Draconean.

"The Eleint would destroy all in their path to achieve vengance, as we all shall see in the long night to come." What vengence is not clear, but we know that the Dragons have started to move behind the seen, and we know that the Eleint can be ruthless. 'Long night to come' probably refers to the dark period ahead, the war with the Chained God and all that.

"The Queen lies dead and may never rise again." This could be Mother Dark, or Tiam. I believe it is Tiam, as she is repeatedly killed yet returns. "The Consort writhes upon a tree and whispers with madness of the time of his release." I assume the Consort is the Otataral Dragon Pearl found in the Imperial Warren in HoC. "The Liege is lost, dragging chains in a wolrd where to walk is to endure, and where to halt is to be devoured." This is obviously Draconus, who is chained inside Rake's Sword Dragnipur(sp?).

"the Knight strides his own doomed path, soon to cross blades with his own vengeance." We cannot be sure if Rake is the Knight of Dragon Hold as well as House Dark; but it is likely. Also notice that 'vengeance' in the prophecy is not capitalized, thus I believe it's not naming an object (i.e. the sword) but rather vengeance as an act. The Knight could be someone else who is after vengeance, which would be consistant with the second line of the prophecy (Eleint trying to achieve vengeance).

"Gate rages with fire." Don't know. "Wyval--Locqui Wyval waits." Which is the story in the book. "The Lady and the Sister dance round each other, each on her own side of the world." This is about Lady Envy, who is on Genebackis, and Sister Spite, who is in Seven Cities. I think we can conclude that Envy is also draconean, since she is part of the Hold. "Blood Drinker waits as well, waits to be found." This is Ruin, and his wait has ended!

"Path-Shaper knows fever in his blood and staggers on the edge of the percipice." I don't know who this could be. The only major characters left are Osseric and Bloodeye. Ossric is not the Path-Shaper since he isn't fevered and I don't think he is the Knight either. Bloodeye might be the Knight, trying for vengeance against the Elder gods who 'killed' him; or he might be Path-Shaper, since he should be going mad wherever it is they had chained his soul in torture.

Any idea's?

[Morgoth]

I am a bit tired, so I might have missed the correction.. But Tiam is female, thus the consort is MALE, which effectively rules the otataral dragon out of the picture seeing that it is female. I know it is not very relevant to the main theme of the thread but I just had to point that out in order for me to be able to get some sleep

[Imperial Historian]

@Hetan no problem

Erikson has confessed to being suprised by how much people liked teh character of anomander rake... he seemed to ahve intended him to originally be an ambivalent character instead of on everyone seems to side with (not suprising since he's also damned cool).

I think we will probably see Rake die... as it is SE, but when he does die it will probably be as as suprising as hell... I think he'll stay alive a few books more though...

And yes k'rul is draconean and almost certainly the path shaper.. he's listed as a half dragon in MT.

[amirebram]

@ Darth Morgoth: I know the exact passage where Pearl calls the dragon "she." But that could have been his mistake, or just a mistake. There have been a few of those before, And the discription about 'writhes upon a tree' is just too much. We know of no other dragon being put on a stake or cross or whatever.

quote:

Originally posted by Hetan:
Eleint is the word for Dragon

I am quite ok with that, but if you look at the Family Tree you will see Elient listed as an individual right above Mother Dark.

[Folken]

@Amirebram: Warrens are known as The Paths. K'Rul is the one that brought order to the warrens, in other words shaped them. Path Shaper. What more proof do you need?

Hetan/Vaiski - page reference to that list would be nice

[Rich the Great]

Maybe something more mundane, such as the undoubtable arrogance of the pure bloods.

[Jorram]

Depends on your definition on god. The Leth Azath held what was referred to as "Toblakai gods". And Silchas is hardly less god than Shadowthrone.

I recall Hetan once had laid out a soooomewhat plausible theory about the Consort being Scabandari, but I don't remember the details now..

[amirebram]

@ Folken: I will admit that K'rul's blood is fevered and he was staggering on the edge of the percipice. I had seen the Family Tree before, and I am not convinced that the Elder Gods (K'rul, Mael & Kilmandaro) are draconean ... They are in that boxed area above, and I believe there is some essential difference.

And what is the difference between K'rul & Mael's blood vs Tiam's blood? If they are all 'Original' Draconean Elder Gods, why is it that everyone just talks about driking Tiam's blood? I can't imagine Mael becoming draconean by driking from Tiam's blood. And the prophecy called them Children of Mother Tiam.

PS >>> I think we can guess who the Consort (in my opinion the Otataral Dragon) is, he must be Eleint (the individual listed right above Mother Dark in the Draconean family-tree).

[polishgenius]

O_0 Where does it say that he'll cross swords with his own vengeance? I never spotted that.

To be honest, there does seem to be a lot indicating Rake will die. When his sword breaks, maybe.

[Folken]

I told myself I wouldn't get involved in this discussion. But I must...

K'Rul is Draconean, Amirebram. And K'Rul is holder of Path Shaper in the Hold. There is no other choice

Here is a link to the Draconean Tree given to us by Steven Erikson.
http://members.shaw....aconeanTree.pdf

Here is a link to the discussion thread on the Tree. I've started you off from pg 2, so you don't have to read the spam before the posting of the actual Tree, which mostly consisted of us giving Patch death threats
http://malazan.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/...00088#285100088

Now as to the actual purpose of this thread, I don't see Anomander dieing without all of the other Andii dieing out as well. And in a world built on the notion of balance, I don't see that happening. But having him die would deal a major blow from a fav character prespective. But to the actually story, perhaps not. It is Steven Erikson after all.

[amirebram]

quote:

...i still think that is likely that the writhes upon a tree is most likely to refer to someone captured by an azath house...

Ah, interesting! I hadn't thought of that. Though I doubt it is Silchas Ruin since he is almost certainly Blood-Drinker.

[S Ruin]

sorry about the mistake guys - i will make sure i study the rules proper before posting another topic

[Imperial Historian]

Errr.... hetan you haven't actually moved the topic....

[Illuyankas]

Perhaps the Elient wished to avenge Tiam being kept dead by the Mixed bloods (to remove any more challenges to their power), fought them and lost, fled into Starvald Demelain and had the gate sealed behind them, leaving the Draconean Ascendants top dogs. Or lizards.

Incidentally, could an Azath constrain a god? I think they're strong enough, at least for a while.