NoK info - SPOILERS! - Malazan Empire

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NoK info - SPOILERS!

#301

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 02:19 AM

As you already know this book contains a lot of background information, and I mean a lot. Quite difficult to encompass it in one post so I'll start the ball rolling and pass it on..

1154th Year of Burns Sleep

Among the most interesting points to me -the 'death' of Dassem Ultor and how he and the remaining members of his sword escaped is covered.
Dassem's Sword is made up of Temper, who features prominently in the book, Hilt, Quillion, Point, Ferule and Dassem himself. They operate as a unit to entice out the strongest warriors of any opposing army.
To my mind that part in itself is so worth reading, that and the character of the man...
In fact there is quite a lot on Dassem Ultor and it's going to revive the entire Dassem = Traveller debate again Posted Image

Temper to Dassem "what will you do?" Dassem "Travel. Head west" Posted Image

but the eyes are the wrong colour!

Surly and the Claw, Tayschrenn, Topper, the Talon, all feature in the book..

New characters - Temper of course, Kiska a young female talent. An Imass type character called Edgewalker who patrols the borders of Kurald Emurlahn.. a sort of caretaker it appears. Another Jaghut Azath guardian - only this ones trying to get out!

There are two interesting 'powerful' people - Agayla a woman who has taken Kiska under her wing, and a man called Obo - not sure if Agayla isn't actually Jhess Queen of Weaving, but someone else might think differently.

There are the first real descriptions we've seen of Tayschren, Dancer, Dassem and Kellanved too.

We meet the dead Bridgeburner - the one with the scarred face from HoC and learn of his part in Kellanved's return and with him is Corinn a female of the Bridgburner mage cadre...

There are some Crimson Guard details to play with - the characters themselves don't feature, but we hear of Lazar and Halfdan and the ones slain by Dassem Ultor - Shirdar, Keal and Bartok - with Skinner being the only one to come away from their clash.

Tayschrenn features quite prominently and we get another glimpse of how much power he has.
His decription seems so like to that of Banaschar in the Bonehunters prologue...

Interesting pov from Edgewalker at the end... with reference to the throne.. '...how long would this one last? Why was it none of the long chain of hopefuls ever bothered to ask why the Throne should be empty in the first place?'

Anyway that's some stuff to start off with - it's a great read.

#302 kcf

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 02:10 PM

I've been thinking on Kiska and who she may be in later books, and I keep coming back to Adjunct Loren. It's been a while since I've read GotM, but I think this fits well.

One thing that caught my eye in particular is that Adjunct Loren has talent but had never trained to use it.

Neth Space

#303

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 11:53 PM

Re-read and a few items of interest..

In the grounds of Deadhouse – Kiska POV.
“Then, so quick and startling did it move, another figure-this one in rags, scarecrow thin and with elongated, oddly proportioned limbs – sprang like a striking snake from the ravaged mound and wrapped it’s arm’s around Oleg’s quarry”

Description similar to Forkrul Assail?

Oleg to Kiska “You were in Shadow. You met the Elder One?”
“Elder?”
“The one who watches the borders”

Is Edgewalker a forgotten Elder God?

When Kellanved arrived in the Mock’s Hold just prior to Surly’s attack– “An overpowering sensation of pressure bore down upon her like an invisible hand. She senses something enormous nearby, silent in the dark.....A gravid deadly presence too huge to grant her notice. She glanced at Tayschreen and saw him grimace........ A droplet of blood fell from his nose.”
This sounds remarkably like the scene in GotM when Rake arrives in Barruk’s house.

“She’d heard the the Queen of Dreams was a practitioner of Thyr”.... hmmm..interesting?
Corinn the BB cadre Mage’s warren was Thyr...
Tayschrenn is confirmed as using Thyr.
Which begs the question why did Tattersail think of it as anathema to her own?

Lots of Thyr in here.... Posted Image

And why would Tays swear upon the Nameless Ones.
I am wondering if he is part of them....but hiding it?

I don’t think the Guardianship Temper accepted was of guardian to the Azath House in the way that Raest and Gothos are. It was more like gatekeeper...which appears to the position Faro held. And after re-reading I would agree with whoever said it that the both Faro and Trenech may belong to the cult of the Nameless Ones.

#304 Guest_Jesterxr71_*

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 04:29 PM

does anyone know if or when it will be available in the United States?

#305 Yellow

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Posted 04 July 2005 - 09:57 AM

Kaiser Soze Posted Image

Don't fuck with the Culture.

#306 Guest_korik_*

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 08:01 AM

that was kurald thyrlan and tellan.
thyr and telas are the children of these warrens.
is there any rule that a powerful mage like tays cant have mastered two warrens within his long lifetime?

anyway just finished it - and really enjoyed it! ICE has a really good style.

few points, i'll add more as i remember them.

the crimson guard fought the malazan army to a standstill on 4(not sure of this number) continents. it seems as if the crimson guard are a pretty large organization. you have got to wonder how kellaved annoyed them in the first place

my view of the stormriders were as jaghut acolytes some sort of cult dedicated to jhenna, maybe her family?

#307 Fid

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 11:32 AM

Not sure Corinn is Tattersail - as Tattersail was herself when the mages etc were cleared from Malaz City previously - in GOTM IIRC?

#308 kaf09

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 11:24 AM

@IH, As far as Kiska = Blend is concerned, I doubt it too - I merely wanted to canvas opinion (if Kiska is indeed Blend she must have had a major falling out with Tayschrenn to end up in the Bridgeburners; anyway the details we've already read in MoI etc. might preclude her). Kiska might be well be a High Fist somewhere now.

As regards the duel between Skinner and Dassem, the feeling I got (and of course I acknowledge I might be egregiously wrong) was that Skinner was lucky to survive the encounter. Dassem was simply just too good, even survival against him was a mark of prowess (cf. Possum, or Whiskeyjack, whom of course DU was not trying to kill). Anyway I hope there are more novels from ICE.

#309 Guest_Dakkareth_*

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 10:09 AM

quote:
it seems as if the crimson guard are a pretty large organization. you have got to wonder how kellaved annoyed them in the first place

Kellanved 'annoyed' them by annexing Unta and ousting Price K'ass D'avore, who ruled there or was successor to the throne.

Edit: Arghh! It consumed my whole post apart from that last part above Posted Image

Anyway, once more:

Corinn might be Tattersail.

The stormriders are probably servitor creatures like the Nacht, created by Jhenna foreseeing the risk of imprisonment. Only the last scene in the book kinda confuses that nice and tidy theory ...

Tayschrenn could well have mastered Telas and have some skill with Thyr as well - Biditahl in HoC used Thyr, Meanas AND Rashan. And his being impressed by Tattersail's mastery might well be another pointer - to truly recognize a master, you have to be a student yourself ...

#310 Therion

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 06:42 PM

re: Edgewalker - By impression & description (from Kiska's & Temper's POV) he seems to be Imass. And yet, ICE emphasizes that Edgewalker is not quite an Imass. But he's definitely no living Tiste.

BTW, can someone clarify Aragan and Jhess (Queen of Weaving) for me? Seems the next re-read of the BotF is due Posted Image

#311 vaiski

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 12:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Hetan:
These sound more like a Tiste race characterisitic?

True. Was it male or female ? Cant remember...
Phaed or Nimander perhaps ?

#312 Imperial Historian

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 08:20 AM

What puzzled me about the jaghut jhenna who tries to escape from deadhouse is this... she is apparently the unwilling guardian of the azath, and tries to escape, yet as I recall gothos is the guardian of the deadhouse and I had assumed he had been there for a long time, but this seems to not be the case.

As to temper, he's just a man with moderate ability with the sword who is quite strong, he's not going to be able to stand up to Rood a hugely powerful hound of shadow, he only managed to stand up to the jaghut because of the help of the azath in my opinion.

And Temper wasn't rescued by dancer from the hound, he was rescued by the shadow acolytes, who may have recognised him due to the helmet, he is fairly famous after all to all those who watched the battle of Y'ghatan.

I wouldn't say that temper is now the azath guardian, seeing as he left the house, I think that role belongs to either jhenna still or someone else will take the role at another time.

I seem to remember a passing reference to something in the straits between malaz isle by kalam which were inhabited by the stormriders, something about the jakartan pirates, perhaps most people do not believe in the existence of the stormriders and don’t pass through the straits because of rumoured pirate activity.

As to tays knowing the power of osserc, he doesn't, osserc is just rumoured to be the most powerful of mages, and so he assumed that only the most powerful of mages would have been able to hold it off, as he didn't think he could.

And the guy who was holding off the storm was supposedly a simple fisherman, not kelanved, that guy intrigues me more than anyone else in the book who was he, why was he so powerful?

Agayla being jhess queen of weaving makes sense, but I don't think we can confirm that.

And there’s only one jaghut, jhenna the azath guardian who is trying to escape, and I think she has something to do with the stormriders.

Oh and tays seems to have a similar description, save his eyes are completely different, he has sunken black eyes, whilst banaschar has flaming eyes as I recall.

Oh and anyone else think that Faro balkat and Trenech are nameless ones? If not who are they? Oh and there seems to be a lot of swearing by the nameless ones... which we haven't seen in other books...

#313 kaf09

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 11:55 AM

Agreed on the timeline.

Just in relation to Y'ghatan, was that the place where there was a fire storm or something like it, and where Kalam and Quick Ben (probably as defenders) found out what happened to otataral when it get hot? Of course this info is from the Erikson novels; there was no mention of a firestorm (or the rat Diver's whose name I have forgotten) in NoK. (Gryllen that's it, "flushed out of Y'ghatan into the fire")

#314

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 04:47 AM

quote:
How is Dassem's physique described?

There is no idea of height given, although the idea is of stature by nature.
He is described as having long black hair, plaited back and tied at the neck, with blazing black eyes.
His helmet has a black horse-hair plume.
IMNSHO he is the coolest of cool dudes... Posted Image

quote:
The other characters like Temper etc, how are they described in terms of arms and armour, power etc.

Temper took on Rood.........and he managed to hurt it before shadow acolytes called the hound off.... He also took on the Jaghut...and lived
He was armed with sword, shield and heavy armour when he fought as Dassem’s sword.
His helmet is identified as black steel with articulated lobster tail neck guard and T-shaped vision slit.
Later he carries two swords belted across his back with daggers in hilts at his hips.
I get the idea that he’s a pretty big guy....

quote:
Interesting about the Jaghut trying to escape from the Azath, any more info on that, a name and motivation?

Her name is Jhenna... she doesn’t seem to have accepted her incarceration at all.

quote:
Who is this "Obo" then? Race, physical description, why would you consider him powerful?

He is described as an old man in shapeless brown robes, bald with a fringe of long white hair. Apparently the purge of talent in Malaz City ordered by Surly had serious repercussions. It’s a bit tricky to explain all that here. Anyways, Tayschrenn refers to Obo and Agayla as two powers facing annihilation under the heels of an enemy of incalculable might.... so that’s good enough for me.

quote:
Re-Crimson Guard; Skinner again. He seems to be truly top notch. Is he mage or warrior, or both? Anything on the Prince himself?

“It was said the Avowed were unstoppable, but Dassem had slain every one who had challenged him, except Skinner”. Nothing on the Prince.

quote:
Any thoughts on who the new major character might be, the one haven't met yet but who will feature in TBH, according to Patch..?

Did Patch say it was a character from NoK? I don’t recall. I suppose it could be Temper....it could be Kiska... it could be Ferrule who also escaped Surly’s trap.

#315 vahlar

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 07:48 AM

I didn't say he was a living Tiste. He seems more of an undead Tiste.

#316 Morgoth

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:14 AM

The only way to get it was order through the net as there were too few for sale. There probably aint anyone left though, but you can try.

Take good care to keep relations civil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil

#317

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Posted 04 July 2005 - 10:12 AM

I love that film...

re: the patronship.. made me think of mortal sword initially..
I also remembered that one of QB's souls had a sword described as "blazing with the blessing of some unknown ascendant".

#318 Guest_korik_*

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 07:53 PM

i was under the impression that the stormriders were jaghut of a sort(dead, shades, spirits etc), what with all the ice lances n all. i could be wrong tho

#319 Guest_Mithfânion_*

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 03:41 AM

Sounds very cool Hetan, thanks for that.

In fact there is quite a lot on Dassem Ultor and it's going to revive the entire Dassem = Traveller debate again

How is Dassem's physique described?

The other characters like Temper etc, how are they described in terms of arms and armour, power etc.

Interesting about the Jaghut trying to escape from the Azath, any more info on that, a name and motivation?

Who is this "Obo" then? Race, physical description, why would you consider him powerful?

Re-Crimson Guard; Skinner again. He seems to be truly top notch. Is he mage or warrior, or both? Anything on the Prince himself?

Any thoughts on who the new major character might be, the one haven't met yet but who will feature in TBH, according to Patch..?

#320

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 06:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Kamek:

The stormriders bothered me too for a while, they just didn't seem to fit in with the world we'd seen before. But then when their origins were revealed, I was much happier. Reminds me of the Crippled God.

Yes, their attack etc had that feel about them.

quote:
Did we know Tayschreen used to serve D'rek, the Worm of Autumn, before whoever he serves now? Or maybe he serves no one now but the Empire. Anyway, he mentions D'rek as his "old master", and seems to even have stood before him in some form. Which I guess is no surprise given his power.

This has been mentioned before.

quote:
I wonder if Shadowthrone truly doesn't know about whatever Edgewalker was talking about at the end, or if he does and doesn't care that he can't truly have the Throne of Shadow (as seems to be the case), as he and Cotillion have much more ambitious plans if hints are to be believed, and heading Shadowhouse is just a stepping stone. I guess the last person/thing to think they took the throne was a long, long time ago, as surely if it wasn't the House of Shadows would have kept appearing and disappearing in the Deck of Dragons and people wouldn't have expressed such surprise at the new house when Shadowthrone took over. Must have been before they could even remember.

Kellanved and Dancer don't know as much about their realm as they think... remember the excerpt with Apt and boy.... he could see things that Dancer couldn't...

quote:
I thought it was very amusing how Dancer got into the Deadhouse as fast as he could, but Kellanved stayed cool and looked around first. I'm not sure if that's a sign of his arrogance, insanity or a mixture of both, but it was good.

.. and I thought he was looking around to make sure there were no observers left... hence his trying to get Kiska to cross the wall into the house.. Posted Image