[Emurlahn]

I am going to switch to mockra. My reasons:

1. Although people have expressed interest in keeping an eye on omtose, no one has got behind my case, and I doubt he will get lynched, so there's not much point staying on him.
2. Omtose has made a satisfactory defence, so im happy to leave him alone, unless he does something suspicious.
3. Mockra is posting little content, drive by voting, his symp behaviour is suspicious.
4. I may not be back in time to change tommorow, and atm mockra is most suspicious for me.

Anyway, I have discussed all this previously. Hopefully I will be able to be back, and read any defences/cases tommorow, but I cannot guarantee it, so I want to put my vote where it will matter. This does not seem to be omtose, and, to tell the truth, I am trusting him more now than I was earlier. Mockra, on the other hand, I am not trusting. Anyhow:

vote mockra

Edit: Fake symping seems quite possible aswell. Mockra seems the one to be doing the symping to me. The more I think on it the more I worry he could be the triad/FM trying to get us believe he is in a family.

G2g soonish. Around 20hrs you say? That ought to be enough for me to be back tommorow. Just. An hour or so before deadline.

This post has been edited by Emurlahn: 08 October 2008 - 10:21 PM

[Tennes]

Barghast, on Oct 8 2008, 09:05 PM, said:

All right, I-m voting Tennes. Just because of the mod-s intervention that made it seem obvious. But mz second choice would definitelz be Omtose.

Barghast, on Oct 8 2008, 10:06 PM, said:

Why are people so reluctant to lynch Tennes?

I cannot tell you how pissed off I was with all this. Fortunately for you, it took me so long to read to the end of the thread, I have now calmed down a bit. I will keep it simple: Meta is bad form, some argue that it verges on cheating. Don't do it. If you must lynch me then at least do me the common fucking courtesy of making an actual case against me. Hell, I would even settle for "he annoys me", it's total bollocks but at least it's based on inthread info.

I am also mildy pissed off with Laxon. I hate it when people let themselves get mod killed.

Tellan, on Oct 8 2008, 10:21 PM, said:

Mockra, on Oct 8 2008, 10:40 AM, said:

Also avoiding the mod kill.

Vote Barghast

-I agree with Korvalain here.

Haven't had the time to do stuff today - full plate. My sincere apologies.

And the Kiwi's should all be on by now. Some have even been on all day. Silencer.

Mockra, on Oct 8 2008, 11:15 AM, said:

Aaaaaaaah. NO DISCUSSING THE REASON FOR THE KILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unvote
Vote Tellan

Mockra, on Oct 8 2008, 11:19 AM, said:

Oh, and yes I was jumping on the bandwagon for Barghast. But as I said, I don't really have that much time. For example, I'm off to sleep now. Will get up tomorrow, have maybe an hour or two all day. And I like my free time.

Anyway, I can't see Tellan getting lynched, so my vote for him is easy, but the reasoning is fair - we should hardly ever (more like never) discuss the reasoning for night actions. Just leads to WIFOM and aides the killer/s.
See? Using my own brain. But I'd still like to vote for Barghast, if I get to read the full thread, maybe I'll change my mind. And we'll see how this is going in the morning.

Night all.

Aah, there we go. These are the three posts mockra made today. His first one basically just says he's on the forum, dont feel like sifting through the first 10 pages for it. So two votes in four posts. Coupled with the fact that him and Korv seem linked, but noone else has reacted to them. I think Korv called me triad once or twice as well, will need to look through all 80 something of his posts to check.

There's also only a 14% chance that one of them is my teammate, so I'm feeling reasonably safe with the following:

vote Mockra

Quote

There are 18 players remaining: Mockra, Omtose, Ruse, Serc, Korvalain, Fener, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Kaschan, Liosan, Shadow, Barghast, D'riss, Emurlahn,Tellan,Tennes, Thyrllan

10 votes are needed for a lynch
9 votes are needed to go to night

1 vote for Barghast (Gamelon)
2 vote for Tellan (Mockra, Korvalain)
1 vote for Mockra (Ruse)
1 vote for Hood's Path (Kaschan)
1 vote for Omtose (Emurlahn)
1 vote for Tennes (Barghast)
12 players have not voted: Omtose, Serc, Fener, Galain, Hood's Path, Liosan, Shadow, D'riss, Tellan,Tennes, Thyrllan

Ok, it might have changed since this but doesn't matter. 18 players remaining. What are the assumptions? 3 families, 6 ppl each? 3 "others". Well then

Corleone 6-2 = 4
Di Lauro 6-1 = 5
Nouveletta 6

If Tellan is Corleone then he has three teamates. 3/18 = 17% of hitting one. Di Lauro 4/18 = 22%....I think you see where I'm going with this. Where'd you get the 14% from Tellan? Was it an attempted subtle hint to your family? If so, I'm still in the dark.

Right, onto my opinions. I always like to lynch a lurker. I feel they're a waste of space and do nothing to help me figure out who I REALLY want dead. Where is Liosan? Are they still playing. I swear if more people get themselves modkilled I will not be amused.

Hood's Path - Yeah ok, you might genuinely feel like you don't have much to say but I don't care. Just say something, anything. Theories, thoughts, throw them out there. Through us some subtle hints if you're feeling really brave. If you've got the same don as me I don't really want to lynch you but right now, I have no loyalty to you and if it weren't so early in the day I would probably vote for you.

Mockra - A bandwagon jumper. Are you going to give us something more than just votes? If you don't then I've got a feeling you'll end up sitting back and letting yourself get lynched.

Korv - If everyone thinks Mockra is symping him then shouldn't you be after him not mockra? I'm not sure about them being triads moving together. Why would they need to be so obvious about it? If they were both from a family you could argue that they are trying to signal to the rest of the family that they are both on the same team. Just cos none of the family has openly jumped to their defense doesn't mean they haven't made note of the person obviously symping their own don. What is there? 11 or 12 people who haven't voted? The rest of the family could easily be hiding in that group.

I'm not so desperate to go after the rest of the corleones now. I think the case that we should focus on triads/cartel is a good one. Still, I would rather hit someone I'm confident is a corleoni that pick someone randomly. Hitting out randomly has a higher chance of getting one of mine than one of the triads/cartel.

[Emurlahn]

Who is this 3rd other. There are only 2. Triad, and Faceless man.

The thing with mockra, is that he symped korv. after korv basically admitted to being corleone.
My main worry is he's using it to hide as a low level symp.
Since korv basically admitted to being corleone, another member would symp him, whether he is don or not. Also, I reckon a don may be more careful.
The main reasons I voted mockra, was lurking, and I am worried he is hiding, as metioned above.

As i've said, hitting Triad/Cartel is the most important to me, but since omtose defended himself, I suspect mockra most. Also because lurking is irritating.

[Emurlahn]

Reason 3 is rather strange.

1. Unless he's a don, his team wouldn't know to defend him.
2. Most people who have played for quite a bit know all the meta stuff, so would just tell you about that, and how it wasn't good for reasoning.

The amount of material for a case is a point, but he's not as bad as some others.

Edit: Cross post. From last game, iirc, there was rather few grunts, comparitively.More than other roles, but still not many of them. Look at the amount of other roles. The chance of a day one hit, is low, although I suppose if we plan for the worst, we wont hit nasty surprises.

This post has been edited by Emurlahn: 08 October 2008 - 10:40 PM

[Tennes]

Emurlahn, on Oct 8 2008, 11:33 PM, said:

Who is this 3rd other. There are only 2. Triad, and Faceless man.

Hmmm.....I'm not sure. I just counted it up and that's what I worked out. If there are 18 left in the game and three have been killed off already that means we must have started with 21. My appologies, I just scrolled back and re-read it. The 18 is including serc. You still can't get 14% though for any of the families so my question still stands.

Quote

The thing with mockra, is that he symped korv. after korv basically admitted to being corleone.
My main worry is he's using it to hide as a low level symp.
Since korv basically admitted to being corleone, another member would symp him, whether he is don or not. Also, I reckon a don may be more careful.
The main reasons I voted mockra, was lurking, and I am worried he is hiding, as metioned above.

As i've said, hitting Triad/Cartel is the most important to me, but since omtose defended himself, I suspect mockra most. Also because lurking is irritating.

ok, fair enough.

[Tennes]

@Barghast - you are forgiven.

[Ruse]

Well, since one of my two preferred targets currently seems to be the most likely to swim with the fishes, and not a whole lot happened since my last post, I'll just wish you all a very good night (and goodmorning/ afternoon to the american/ australian/kiwi ones). Tomorrow will be a weird day as I'll run from meeting to meeting, so expect no regular postings from me until dinner time. I'll have more time on friday.

And with that, I'll leave you all for now. Ciao ciao.

[Tennes]

I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to go to bed too. I won't bother voting because I will be back before the end of the day.

[Bent]

Path-Shaper here...(see what I did there?)

I am gone for the rest of the night, wife is home and is pissed I have been on the comp all night after she cooked and cleaned....so I'm gonna punc her in the face, grab her by the hair of the head, and take her to the cave. Night guys.

[Kaschan]

footy in the rain is a wonderful thing, let me tell you..

Mockra has 3 or 4 votes on him, i believe
Tennes, there's an ever so slight mistake with all your pretty maths: you forgot that Serc's dead. there are 17 players left

so, assuming no conversions night 1
Nouveletta - 6
Di Lauro - 5
Corleone - 4
FM -1
Triad - 1

also, once we kill the original triad, the first recruit gains the recruiting powers. So we won't be safe untill all triads are dead
now, Morgy mentioned this clearly (though maybe it was in the sign-up thread) : there are exactly TWO grunts per family, for the total of 6. Which is the same as in game 17. Now, with the other two mandatory roles (Don and poisoner), that means that of the other 5 roles given, only 2 will actually be present.
I havwe no rblem switching to mockra, but the fact that everyone avoids commenting on my vote on HP like the plague makes me think I may have hit something, and now I'm getting the silent treatment to try to prove that it's nothing. Or, it could be paranoia on my part So, I'll gladly swithc, but there's tons of time still, and we now only need 8 votes to lynch and we already got 4, I think.

now, lastly, to this post:

Fener, on Oct 8 2008, 05:40 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on Oct 8 2008, 09:26 PM, said:

I would be happy enough to vote Mockra. He has 4 posts. Thats the same as HP.
HOWEVER:

He is linked to Korvalain. It seems obvious enough. Now, that means he's almost certainly a family. Korvalain seems corleone.

My problem:
If they are linked they are family.
As I have said, i would prefer to go for someone I think is not family, but rather Triad/FM.

However:
He seems lurky-ish, with only 4 posts.
It's possible that he's being very clever, and pretending to be obviously on someones team, therefore, people wont think he is FM/Triad.
After all, he is probably the only person so obviously linked. Has anyone else done what he has, and sheeped so massively? I dont think so.

Ok, see I don't see Korvalain as being Corleone and even if he is so what. That isn't my family so I don't have a problem killing Corleone off. But you are talking about Mockra and his low posts and quick votes. I could see Mockra being either the FM/Triad, and symping Korvalain to try to get through another day. A lot of us played in 17 when we went after one tribe while killing off the other tribe at night. It ended up being a fantastic example of railroading. Now with Corleone having lost two members they are obviously hurting and in a easy position to be taken out. I say we finish the job and them. There has only been one other loss from another family and that was a Mod Kill. The other families are still pretty even (If they started out that way) so really we can kill off a suspected Corleone, and not worry about losing ground (members) to one of the other families.

Also a couple of games ago we did hit a low poster (I think that it was Kell) and it turned out that he was a bad guy. So once in a while it does work. Kind of like the odds of hitting a scum (in a normal game) on day one. But low posting is irritating and when you add that to the fact that Mockra is either trying to symp korvalain or is in the same alliance as him then it adds up to a good vote.

There is still lots of time left in the day so I will vote when I get back. Perhaps Mockra will post a brilliant defense (it has happened before).

note the bolded part. so, you're saying that it ended up being a fantastic example of railroading, and then you suggest we do it all over again. I think you may have just revealed Nouveletta and you're trying to capitalize on the majority the faction currently posesses. i mean, you say "railroading" like it's a GOOD thing.

[Liosan]

Finally, I have some time to blow.

People have already said what I think about voting for Tennes: meta reasons are lame reasons. Listen to the mods.

Secondly, I decided to look at the lowest posters (excepting myself) as presently they require the littlest amount of eyes glazing over and scrolling:

Hood's Path -- 4 posts so far, first 2 useless. Votes for Telas on "gut instinct" but says his case on Korvalain is good too, which sounds non-committal IMO. And his last post: not sure what to think about the whole "having nothing to say" part, except tough luck.

Mockra -- 4 posts as well, bandwagons without reason and doesn't want to discuss night kills, which I totally disagree with. I don't like that he voted Barghast without even reading the thread fully either. The last thing I'd want to do if I don't have much time to spend on the game is just say "I agree with so-and-so" and leap onto a bandwagon. Definitely suspicious. (That said, he has the coolest avatar ever.)

Thyrllan -- apart from a lot of yelling at Telas, here's something I don't get from him. He says the Barghast-as-FM case is crap but then still suspects he's either FM/poisoner? (Admittedly I think Barghast on day one was suspicious too; how anyone could conceivably think their knowledge of Italian would prevent an FM from using Babelfish or Dictionary.com/translator is ridiculous) Votes for Telas simply cuz (though reading his earlier posts doesn't make it all that surprising). This post is weird; I'm pretty sure Telas started hammering Korvalain after his Corleone slip, not diverting the attention to Tellann, though I can't be sure until re-read. And I seriously can't understand what he's saying here at all.

Tennes -- I like Tennes. He's aggressive and to-the-point. That said, I find it inexplicably hard to get a read on him and will have to re-read later when I have a clearer head. If this was a regular game I'd be tempted to classify him as innocent, but alas it's not

Galain -- makes about one post of interest, and even that is an obvious thing to say. Everything else is junk (sorry). Non-committal as hell, and has been sailing the game through without notice. Seriously suspicious.

Ruse -- I disagree with his vote on Korvalain - all I get is that he didn't vote for Telas because his style was hard to mimic by an FM? Er... That said, he keeps gunning for Korvalain and Mockra on day two, which is at least admirable for being focused. I'm still wary of him however.

Will be back in a few, when more people are around. For now -- physics homework :zanth:

ETA: I'm not sure if people can tell, but I did link some posts. The purple shade used to indicate linked posts is very, very faint.

This post has been edited by Liosan: 09 October 2008 - 01:43 AM

[Fener]

Kaschan, on Oct 9 2008, 12:24 AM, said:

footy in the rain is a wonderful thing, let me tell you..

Mockra has 3 or 4 votes on him, i believe
Tennes, there's an ever so slight mistake with all your pretty maths: you forgot that Serc's dead. there are 17 players left

so, assuming no conversions night 1
Nouveletta - 6
Di Lauro - 5
Corleone - 4
FM -1
Triad - 1

also, once we kill the original triad, the first recruit gains the recruiting powers. So we won't be safe untill all triads are dead
now, Morgy mentioned this clearly (though maybe it was in the sign-up thread) : there are exactly TWO grunts per family, for the total of 6. Which is the same as in game 17. Now, with the other two mandatory roles (Don and poisoner), that means that of the other 5 roles given, only 2 will actually be present.
I havwe no rblem switching to mockra, but the fact that everyone avoids commenting on my vote on HP like the plague makes me think I may have hit something, and now I'm getting the silent treatment to try to prove that it's nothing. Or, it could be paranoia on my part So, I'll gladly swithc, but there's tons of time still, and we now only need 8 votes to lynch and we already got 4, I think.

now, lastly, to this post:

Fener, on Oct 8 2008, 05:40 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on Oct 8 2008, 09:26 PM, said:

I would be happy enough to vote Mockra. He has 4 posts. Thats the same as HP.
HOWEVER:

He is linked to Korvalain. It seems obvious enough. Now, that means he's almost certainly a family. Korvalain seems corleone.

My problem:
If they are linked they are family.
As I have said, i would prefer to go for someone I think is not family, but rather Triad/FM.

However:
He seems lurky-ish, with only 4 posts.
It's possible that he's being very clever, and pretending to be obviously on someones team, therefore, people wont think he is FM/Triad.
After all, he is probably the only person so obviously linked. Has anyone else done what he has, and sheeped so massively? I dont think so.

Ok, see I don't see Korvalain as being Corleone and even if he is so what. That isn't my family so I don't have a problem killing Corleone off. But you are talking about Mockra and his low posts and quick votes. I could see Mockra being either the FM/Triad, and symping Korvalain to try to get through another day. A lot of us played in 17 when we went after one tribe while killing off the other tribe at night. It ended up being a fantastic example of railroading. Now with Corleone having lost two members they are obviously hurting and in a easy position to be taken out. I say we finish the job and them. There has only been one other loss from another family and that was a Mod Kill. The other families are still pretty even (If they started out that way) so really we can kill off a suspected Corleone, and not worry about losing ground (members) to one of the other families.

Also a couple of games ago we did hit a low poster (I think that it was Kell) and it turned out that he was a bad guy. So once in a while it does work. Kind of like the odds of hitting a scum (in a normal game) on day one. But low posting is irritating and when you add that to the fact that Mockra is either trying to symp korvalain or is in the same alliance as him then it adds up to a good vote.

There is still lots of time left in the day so I will vote when I get back. Perhaps Mockra will post a brilliant defense (it has happened before).

note the bolded part. so, you're saying that it ended up being a fantastic example of railroading, and then you suggest we do it all over again. I think you may have just revealed Nouveletta and you're trying to capitalize on the majority the faction currently posesses. i mean, you say "railroading" like it's a GOOD thing.

You can think what you want I didn't reveal anything so don't put me in revealing anything. I am not a Corleone and so I see my family in a good position. Yes railroading can be good as long as it isn't one of my family members. If it is a probable Corleone or either the Triad/FM then I am fine with Railroading. Right now there is pressure but no real railroading. People are trying to figure out who is in their family's with out giving away their own allegiance. We are still in the touchy feely stage of the game.

I am going to bed. I will comment on your HP vote tomorrow when I get up.

Night

[Kaschan]

well, my work took longer than expected. Liosan, afraid you're still on your own for a while
To the issue at hand: Fener, I guess we disagree on "railroading" then. Regardless of my allegiance (unless of course i were FM or Triad--they don't care who dies), I still wouldn't want one faction getting a majority, or anywhere close to it.
You say it's ok to vote off a Corleone? suppose we do, then at night, the FM probably jumps or we may get some kills. and suppose the one family with 6 people managed to avoid being hit. we're down to 15-14 people, with one side having a voting block big enough to single-handedly take us to night.
Honestly, I don't want to ring any alarm bells just yet, but I think while the majority agree that we should be looking for the single-man factions, keeping a numerical parity between the families (or at least as close as we can get to it), is a good thing
now, i'm essentially in the same boat as the rest of us--my don's safe, so i got no real reads on anyone. Can't say how likely I am to hit my own teammate on a random lynch--that'd give away my family. But I'm still willing to risk it.
Now Mockra and HP were both low-posters, quite ucontributive.if either's on my team, they're likely to get modkilled with this level of participation, so I don't mind voting them off. But really, I got no more info then the rest of us.

EDIT: and i've gotta get some shut-eye now. Back in 6-7 hours.

This post has been edited by Kaschan: 09 October 2008 - 05:04 AM

[Korvalain]

Well, this should make things easier.


All right players, let's be brutally honest: today the best target is Barghast. He is FOR SURE not Corleone from his behavior since yesterday. And when someone asked me "how do you know you're not hitting one of your own if you say you're not Corleone", I answered that I saw something that made me confident he was not.

It happened again while I was gone, and I can't imagine the rest of my team wouldn't see it if they missed it the first time. Obviously, I can't quote it, it would make everything too obvious.

So, why take a chance with other players, I mean, is anybody else's family obvious?

Here's the deal: the Corleones would be happy to kill Barghast, and so would my team. Now, time is ticking, let's all vote. Then no-one can know for sure in which family we are; maybe there will be hesitations between 2 (Corleone or my team), but that's not to bad. Add the FM, Triad, members of the third family who are confused also possibly voting, and we have a lynch that gives little info, everyone's dream.

remove vote
vote Barghast

again. No offense, and I'm not calling "scum" or "suspicious" like others have, which makes no sense. Actually, all I know is that he is neither Corleone nor my family, there's still a chance he is FM or Triad.

[Korvalain]

Other comments about what I read:

- I didn't realize it was Mockra that had the other vote on Tellan when I voted. Please don't insult my reason for switching by just looking at who voted Tellan 10 pages earlier, I wanted to put pressure on a player who express his strategy, then ask others to do it for him to make sure he's not getting anyone pissed. I would switch back to him, but I'm not as certain of his family that I am of Barghast.

- I'm not overly worried about finding the FM or the Triad now. They both have very hard games to play and to win. Despise all our "detective work", the best chances finding the FM will be after he switches once, and anyways until he does he can't win. Starting from tonight, let's look hard at all the night kills to see which could be FM-related, and let's look at player's change of style. Until then, I'm quite sure the FM is the one who's acting completely unlike what we all declare the FM would do.

- As for the Triad, he can only recruit grunts, so many chances each night that he fails. And we have better chances of hitting grunts by lynching other family members, removing his oxygen and chances to win, that we have hitting the Triad leader, who once again may or may not act the way we deduce him to.

- There's two things I can't imagine family players to do: defend his don, or vote for his don. The don is the guiding light which you use to read other player's alliegances, not an important player you need to keep alive, or a scum you need to dissociate from.

- Fener is a pervert, the majority of his last posts is to look at naked players.

[Korvalain]

One last thing:

If you don't see what Barghast did, then you might be on his team. Realize this: he was unlucky enough to alienate two teams, which is the worst position to be in. Refusing to vote him corresponds to declaring you own team once we get the CF, so think carefully.

Again, Barghast is not scum, just unlucky, but in a game like this, even his own team have to let him go to not amplify the damage.