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The internet at University is too slow to keep this up. I'm going home.
'Til Later.
Mafia 27: The Escape of the Benses (Game Thread)
#122 Guest_Shadow_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:02 PM
Omtose;374323 said:
Usually would imply most of the time or more times than not. What I said was a fair number of times, the intention behind that post is to point out how all badwagons should be taken seriously.
1.
Yes, I wanted a wagon. Wagons are a primary source of information.
2.
Yes, I was aware that it could lead to his lynch. What point is any wagon without even the threat of a lynch.
3.
Does this mean that I 100% definitely wanted Ruse lynched? No.
1.
Yes, I wanted a wagon. Wagons are a primary source of information.
2.
Yes, I was aware that it could lead to his lynch. What point is any wagon without even the threat of a lynch.
3.
Does this mean that I 100% definitely wanted Ruse lynched? No.
1. This is why I thought your play questionable
2. If you wanted a wagon, and knew it might lead to his lynch, why question Galain for helping with the wagon you wanted? It seemed to me that you didn't want to be accused of starting a wagon, if it in fact caused a Ruse lynch.
3. Then why did you vote? You already stated his WIFOM reasoning was scummy, I think your play style is scummy, so I voted, in the hopes of getting you lynched, to find out if my suspicions are correct.
Also, the fact that I have been quoting you, and pointing out inconsistencies makes you think I am scummy, "strawmanning" isn't a term I am familiar with. I am not trying to put words in your mouth, I am trying to get clarification on what you are trying to say.
#123 Guest_Serc_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:07 PM
Omtose;374319 said:
I personally feel that my reason for voting Ruse is stronger than yours for voting me, but I would wouldn't I.
Please point out where I actually pushed a Ruse lynch? Where did I say that I definitely want him to be the lynch? Where did I call on people to vote for him?
Making suggestions which amount to wifom is scummy play, please don't accuse me ignoring scumminess.
Where did I ever say that I voted Ruse "just for the sake of getting a lynch"? Or "for more information on day 2"? I voted Ruse because he had done the scummiest thing I'd seen so far in the game and the only way to get the game truly started is to start voting.
Ruse's scumminess though is being seriously challenged by your strawmanning and putting words into my mouth.
Please point out where I actually pushed a Ruse lynch? Where did I say that I definitely want him to be the lynch? Where did I call on people to vote for him?
Making suggestions which amount to wifom is scummy play, please don't accuse me ignoring scumminess.
Where did I ever say that I voted Ruse "just for the sake of getting a lynch"? Or "for more information on day 2"? I voted Ruse because he had done the scummiest thing I'd seen so far in the game and the only way to get the game truly started is to start voting.
Ruse's scumminess though is being seriously challenged by your strawmanning and putting words into my mouth.
Shadow is not strawmanning you. Stop accusing others of what you are doing, it is a poor misdirection tactic.
You 'wonder' where you said you are voting for Ruse to get more information, despite the fact you have said numerous times that the only information on day one is trains and lynches.
#124 Guest_D'riss_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:19 PM
Serc;374333 said:
Shadow is not strawmanning you. Stop accusing others of what you are doing, it is a poor misdirection tactic.
You 'wonder' where you said you are voting for Ruse to get more information, despite the fact you have said numerous times that the only information on day one is trains and lynches.
You 'wonder' where you said you are voting for Ruse to get more information, despite the fact you have said numerous times that the only information on day one is trains and lynches.
Well, he might have meant 'more information (gained by a lynch)', but considered the second part too belligerent to mention
. Anyone building a reliable train right now and jumping on it, driving straight to a lynch would be eyeballed by the rest of us, and I dare say that few are ruthless enough to be willing to run the verbal gauntlet for their behavior now on day 2 and 3, when we have the time to pick things apart.
#125 Guest_Serc_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:21 PM
I'm not accusing Omtose of being wrong by voting, I think it is good for him to vote and get discussion going. I AM accusing him of lying, as my post indicated.
#126 Guest_Galain_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:26 PM
Oh blessed be!!!! Content! actual content posted!!!!
I like where you are going with this Shadow. When I removed my vote for Ruse, I was tempted to through it right over to Omtose just for the arrogant style of his play. I will for the next say 8 hrs be holding my vote because I am at work and can't watch the thread as often as needed when I have a vote out. Glad to see some more people starting to show up and post.
I like where you are going with this Shadow. When I removed my vote for Ruse, I was tempted to through it right over to Omtose just for the arrogant style of his play. I will for the next say 8 hrs be holding my vote because I am at work and can't watch the thread as often as needed when I have a vote out. Glad to see some more people starting to show up and post.
#127 Guest_Ruse_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:26 PM
Can someone explain strawmanning to me? I take it it means something like building a house of cards with the aim simply to set it burning. Or lynched.
God that's a horrible mix of metaphors and analogies.
God that's a horrible mix of metaphors and analogies.
#128 Guest_Serc_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:31 PM
Ruse;374342 said:
Can someone explain strawmanning to me? I take it it means something like building a house of cards with the aim simply to set it burning. Or lynched.
God that's a horrible mix of metaphors and analogies.
God that's a horrible mix of metaphors and analogies.
From Wiki
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]
#129 Guest_Shadow_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:35 PM
Serc;374345 said:
From Wiki
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]
Could someone explain what fallacy, superficially,rhetorical, technique, and refuted means!
Just kidding.
#130 Guest_Serc_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:36 PM
Shadow;374348 said:
Could someone explain what fallacy, superficially,rhetorical, technique, and refuted means!
Just kidding.
Just kidding.
Yes, I could.
#131 Guest_Ruse_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:41 PM
Serc;374345 said:
From Wiki
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]
Cheers for that. That's actually a good word for behaviour I've seen in mafia a fucking lot that drives me mad. Nice that I can actually put a word to it for once!
#132 Guest_Mockra_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 03:13 PM
some interesting discussions going on, Havent really got much to add for todays discussion.
Have had a rough afternoon (stayed too long at the pub last night and feeling real groggy the whole day)
Should be more vocal tomorrow once my hangover has completely dissipated.
So far I'd say ruse's use of wifom as a reason to potentially lynch someone is the scummiest thing ive seen so far. Which is admittedly very weak.
Well im going home to sleep, might be on later but i doubt it.
Have had a rough afternoon (stayed too long at the pub last night and feeling real groggy the whole day)
Should be more vocal tomorrow once my hangover has completely dissipated.
So far I'd say ruse's use of wifom as a reason to potentially lynch someone is the scummiest thing ive seen so far. Which is admittedly very weak.
Well im going home to sleep, might be on later but i doubt it.
#133 Guest_Galain_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 03:34 PM
"Straw manning" is Mafia. It is how cases are made most of the time. But I can see this turning into one of the things we will be saying "ALL" the time now. Mark my words this will become like WIFOM.
Future Quote "Thats just a SMA" (Straw Manning Argument)
Kudos to Omtose.
Future Quote "Thats just a SMA" (Straw Manning Argument)
Kudos to Omtose.
#134 Guest_Gamelon_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 03:39 PM
I like the use of Straw man argument, in fact I propose that we bring back all of the turn of the 19th century political jargon. For instance
Carpet bagger = Since 1900 the term has been used more widely in the US to describe outsiders' attempting to gain political office or economic advantage, especially in areas (thematically or geographically) to which they previously had no connection. (from wiki)
Scalawag = Joseph E. Worcester's 1860 Dictionary of the English Language defined scalawag as "A low worthless fellow; a scapegrace." Scalawag was also a word for low-grade farm animals. In early 1868 a Mississippi editor observed that scalawag "has been used from time immemorial to designate inferior milch cows in the cattle markets of Virginia and Kentucky." That June the Richmond Enquirer concurred; scalawag had heretofore "applied to all of the mean, lean, mangy, hidebound skiny [sic], worthless cattle in every particular drove." Only in recent months, the Richmond paper remarked, had the term taken on political meaning. The equalivent to this in the south was the carpetbaggers (from wiki)
Neither one of those terms gets enough use and both of them are appropriate at times in mafia.
Carpet bagger = Since 1900 the term has been used more widely in the US to describe outsiders' attempting to gain political office or economic advantage, especially in areas (thematically or geographically) to which they previously had no connection. (from wiki)
Scalawag = Joseph E. Worcester's 1860 Dictionary of the English Language defined scalawag as "A low worthless fellow; a scapegrace." Scalawag was also a word for low-grade farm animals. In early 1868 a Mississippi editor observed that scalawag "has been used from time immemorial to designate inferior milch cows in the cattle markets of Virginia and Kentucky." That June the Richmond Enquirer concurred; scalawag had heretofore "applied to all of the mean, lean, mangy, hidebound skiny [sic], worthless cattle in every particular drove." Only in recent months, the Richmond paper remarked, had the term taken on political meaning. The equalivent to this in the south was the carpetbaggers (from wiki)
Neither one of those terms gets enough use and both of them are appropriate at times in mafia.
#135 Guest_Ruse_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 03:44 PM
Gamelon, "scalawag" is still around today, though it's been abbreviated to "scally" (in the northwest, anyway).
Scallies are similar to chavs. They wear nothing but sportswear, they tuck their tracky bottoms into their socks, they wear a lot of bling, and they cover their shaved heads with baseball caps. They also like to steal, mug, burgle, fight, work-dodge and get their 14-year old girlfriends pregnant.
Scallies are similar to chavs. They wear nothing but sportswear, they tuck their tracky bottoms into their socks, they wear a lot of bling, and they cover their shaved heads with baseball caps. They also like to steal, mug, burgle, fight, work-dodge and get their 14-year old girlfriends pregnant.
#136 Guest_Path-Shaper_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 03:44 PM
The first day passes, and is surprisingly quiet.
It seems the incarnation of the soul in this strange realm cared little for the actual gender of the owner, and most have ended up with bodies of the opposite sex.
Most of the energies are thus lost in self-staring, groping and explorations.
Slowly, as the novelty wears off, you start to turn back your attention to the problem at hand.
**
It is day 1, 23 hours and some change left
15 players alive, 8 to lynch and to go to night
1 vote Ruse (Omtose)
1 vote Omtose (Shadow)
13 have not voted (Barghast, D'riss, Fener, Galain, Gamelon, Hoods Path, Kaschan, Liosan, Mockra, Ruse, Serc, Telas, Tennes)
It seems the incarnation of the soul in this strange realm cared little for the actual gender of the owner, and most have ended up with bodies of the opposite sex.
Most of the energies are thus lost in self-staring, groping and explorations.
Slowly, as the novelty wears off, you start to turn back your attention to the problem at hand.
**
It is day 1, 23 hours and some change left
15 players alive, 8 to lynch and to go to night
1 vote Ruse (Omtose)
1 vote Omtose (Shadow)
13 have not voted (Barghast, D'riss, Fener, Galain, Gamelon, Hoods Path, Kaschan, Liosan, Mockra, Ruse, Serc, Telas, Tennes)
#137 Guest_Ruse_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 03:45 PM
Mockra;374362 said:
So far I'd say ruse's use of wifom as a reason to potentially lynch someone is the scummiest thing ive seen so far. Which is admittedly very weak.
Mockra, I haven't once said that we should be lynching anyone.
You know, you're really not as subtle as you think you are.
#138 Guest_Kaschan_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 03:51 PM
Fener;374176 said:
Bah!
Still, it would seem out UB dislike the Kaschan alt.
Still, it would seem out UB dislike the Kaschan alt.
#139 Guest_Ruse_*
Posted 25 August 2008 - 03:53 PM
Hmmm.
Fener is the mod's letter double quote, Uncle Ben?
Fener is the mod's letter double quote, Uncle Ben?
:D
