[QuickTidal]

RodeoRanch, on 19 June 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

"Lucifer" as a companion series is amazing.

Indeed, but has sadly been cancelled as of last week.

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, on 19 June 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

RodeoRanch, on 19 June 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

"Lucifer" as a companion series is amazing.

Indeed, but has sadly been cancelled as of last week.

Dude, what the heck has you been smoking? Lucifer ran for 75 issues and stopped publishing in 2006.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 19 June 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 19 June 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

RodeoRanch, on 19 June 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

"Lucifer" as a companion series is amazing.

Indeed, but has sadly been cancelled as of last week.

Dude, what the heck has you been smoking? Lucifer ran for 75 issues and stopped publishing in 2006.

I is smokin' the truth. What I should have said is out of print for good...AKA get it now if you want it. My bad.

http://www.bleedingc...to-dcs-lucifer/

[polishgenius]

Well, I'm sure they'll be back in print in a few years time, especially if Carey makes it as a major name, but yeah; if that's the case, then get them while they're there, because it's an ace series...

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 20 June 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Well, I'm sure they'll be back in print in a few years time, especially if Carey makes it as a major name, but yeah; if that's the case, then get them while they're there, because it's an ace series...

Actually, as far as I know the rights swing back to Gaiman on the character if they stop printing it. The article specifically and cryptically references the fact that "they are NOT going to be going back into print" Therefore it would be entirely up to Gaiman to see it get reprinted in the future and no longer DC. I think that's why this is so big a deal since Gaiman will get his creation back and DC will no longer have nay rights to it, and Gaiman probably won't reprint it.

[Abyss]

...unless that's the plan to get him to write the character again on contract...

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 20 June 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

...unless that's the plan to get him to write the character again on contract...

He's never gone back to Sandman...no reason he'd go back to Lucifer.

In fact the only property in his entire career he's revisited is AMERICAN GODS. Otherwise he seems to leave the past in the past.

[Abyss]

He did ENDLESS NIGHTS and DREAM HUNTERS after he was done w SANDMAN, with the rationale that they weren't really Sandman stories they just took place in the same universe.

Given sufficient gobs of money and the opportunity to do something that wasn't a Dream or Death story, i could see him jumping back into the pool. HUNTERS was 1999. It's been 13 years... maybe he needs a new house or something...

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 20 June 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

The article specifically and cryptically references the fact that "they are NOT going to be going back into print"

That just strikes me as a bit of hyperbole. I could be wrong, but I can't see how that's a meaningful phrase, especially with no elaboration.

Quote

Therefore it would be entirely up to Gaiman to see it get reprinted in the future and no longer DC. I think that's why this is so big a deal since Gaiman will get his creation back and DC will no longer have nay rights to it, and Gaiman probably won't reprint it.

Not sure why Gaiman wouldn't... 1) not only does he not strike me as an arsehole who'd withhold such things if fans wanted it, but he's been in situations where his own work has been out of print because of rights issues and fought hard to get it published, so I can't see why he'd do the same to someone else and 2) if the rights are his he stands to earn money, regardless of who wrote it, so what gain is there to him in not allowing it?

In terms of 'Mike Carey being a big name', I just meant that (whoever owns the rights) the reason it'll be going out of print is it's no longer worth their while, but if he becomes a comics superstar people will want to search his older work out and thus it'll an earner again.

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, on 20 June 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

He's never gone back to Sandman...no reason he'd go back to Lucifer.

In fact the only property in his entire career he's revisited is AMERICAN GODS. Otherwise he seems to leave the past in the past.

Why would he go back to Lucifer if the series has been conclusively done by another set of writers?

If he controls the rights to the series' printing, then I do not understand why he'd let them lie dormant and not allow them/him to make money off very respectful and well done stories. It's not an intellectual property issue as it is for several other series/authors - at least not in my limited view of things.

[amphibian]

polishgenius, on 20 June 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

In terms of 'Mike Carey being a big name', I just meant that (whoever owns the rights) the reason it'll be going out of print is it's no longer worth their while, but if he becomes a comics superstar people will want to search his older work out and thus it'll an earner again.

Yes, this makes much more sense.

[QuickTidal]

In the comic world Carey IS a fairly big name. Has been for years. I'm not sure if you mean a bigger name in his "novel" industry, but every time I see him show up at comic events he gets fairly top billing.

UNWRITTEN has a pretty big following already, so I'm not sure what you imply by "big name" since I think he's that already.

Gaiman, if the rights reverted to him explicitly, then he'd have to pay for the print runs himself to bring it back and that's daunting to do for a creator (ask Mark Waid)...which is probably what's being implied....unless he sold the rights back to DC to print again...which seems to be what won't happen.

Anyways...for the time being if you want to read it, get it now.

[stone monkey]

I'm pretty sure Gaiman doesn't actually own any of the Endless characters (he definitely doesn't own Destiny as he was canonically a pre-existing character); they were done as work-for-hire iirc. DC (probably learning a lesson from their treatment of Alan Moore, although the Watchmen debacle lends dubious credence to that - and probably in the hopes of keeping Gaiman sweet and writing for them in future) do allow him approval on the later appearances of some of these characters (most notably Death). I'd also be hugely surprised if he had ownership of Lucifer too.

[Abyss]

My point was i could see Gaiman cutting a new deal w DC to do a new series - not necessarily specifically Luci or Morpheus, but related - but retaining onwership and control of the property.
By letting the license to Luci and co revert to gaiman, this becomes possible. When he held Dream and co but DC held the related licenses, it was a legalese nightmare.

After what they're doing with WATCHMEN, nothing is off the table.

[QuickTidal]

stone monkey, on 20 June 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure Gaiman doesn't actually own any of the Endless characters (he definitely doesn't own Destiny as he was canonically a pre-existing character); they were done as work-for-hire iirc. DC (probably learning a lesson from their treatment of Alan Moore, although the Watchmen debacle lends dubious credence to that - and probably in the hopes of keeping Gaiman sweet and writing for them in future) do allow him approval on the later appearances of some of these characters (most notably Death). I'd also be hugely surprised if he had ownership of Lucifer too.

Gaiman (along with Keith and Dringeberg) are the creator's of these characters. DC ONLY owns "Sandman" as a character and "Destiny" and so he and Dream are the only ones who are owned by DC...The deal with DC included the stipulation that the series ends when he's done with it. This is the guy who fought for his creator-owned characters in Spawn for years and is a huge proponent of creator's OWNING their creations outright. I think you'll find that he likely DOES control the rest of the characters (Lucifer included) all except "Sandman" and "Destiny" since DC owns those two NAMES (this is specific on his website in the FAQ, that he doesn't own Sandman, but his reps could be contacted for a list of those he DOES control from that universe)...if not the actual image of Dream himself. The Endless were his idea from day one.

The Watchmen debacle came to a head BEFORE Gaiman set out to write Sandman in 1989...and he was also friends with Moore when the whole thing went down. That's actually one of the reasons he stipulated in his contract that the series would end when he finished it. He didn't want to get trapped into a situation where DC screwed him like they did Moore.

Lastly SANDMAN was most CERTAINLY NOT done as work-for-hire. Not sure where you get that from. Gaiman's work BEFORE Sandman was work-for-hire...SWAMP THING, and the like...but SANDMAN was a concerted, build it from the ground up on HIS ideas project that he creatively controlled and was organized from the very first outlines and drafts as a long opus that had a beginning, middle and end. He was commissioned and allowed to use Sandman and Destiny, but was paid to complete the project on his own terms, not as part of being "an employee of DC" which is what Work-to-hire implies. He went to them, asked them if he could do it, outlined it and they commissioned it from him.

If you read the notes and appendices in the ABSOLUTE SANDMAN volumes this is quickly evident.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 20 June 2012 - 07:22 PM

[Abyss]

true, the 'Sandman/Dream' character DC owns has no resemblance to Gaiman's Morpheus, and to be fair Gaiman did tie Morpheus both to the red/yellow costumed dream guardian guy, and the JSA character.

Destiny goes way way back to some old 'Tales of Mystery' anthology series. I always liked the way Gaiman threw him into the Endless.

All of which is to say the ownership issue is hazy at best.

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 20 June 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

In the comic world Carey IS a fairly big name. Has been for years. I'm not sure if you mean a bigger name in his "novel" industry, but every time I see him show up at comic events he gets fairly top billing.

UNWRITTEN has a pretty big following already, so I'm not sure what you imply by "big name" since I think he's that already.

By 'big name' I mean Morrison, Moore, Gaiman, Ellis... Carey's known, but he's not [i]that[i] known; the sort of cachet where newcomers to the medium will immediately be directed to his series and therefore sales will always be relatively high is what I mean.

It may be that The Unrwitten gets him that recognition (I hope so).

Quote

that's daunting to do for a creator (ask Mark Waid)

True, but there's an order of difference between Mark Waid, who probably still has to write to pay the bills, and Neil Gaiman, who'd probably be okay if he never published another word in his life.

Quote

unless he sold the rights back to DC to print again...which seems to be what won't happen.

Or he reached an agreement with DC where he kept the rights but they reprinted it for a share of the profits. I dunno if DC's policies allow that kind of thing but it doesn't seem an unfeasible scenario.

[stone monkey]

I'd have to dig out my old back issues - and God alone knows where they've got to. But iirc the copyright blurb is the standard: all characters etc. belong to DC and all that folderol. I'd hazard a guess that Gaiman's contract says that DC are obliged to ask him for his permission before using them - hence he has control but not necessarily ownership.

[Aptorian]

Funny, that you would have a discussion about new Sandman comics, when Gaiman just announced a new story on the 25th anniversary of the first issue.

[Otataral Toblakai]

I personally found the whole book rather anti-climatic and depressing, not to mention 'run of the mill'. But then, I read it after reading several fantasy series so that was a given. On the whole, those fond of thrillers/mysteries will like it but those fond of fantasy, flavored epic, will find it a tad confined.

And, no offense meant to any Gaiman lovers.