[Abyss]

This is driving me nuts...

One undead dragon escapes Hood's warren in the gate Quell and Gruntle used.


One undead dragon shows up by Kallor's camp, wakes him up and says it's looking for a new master, the CG.

THEN undead draconic soletaken Tiste Edur Tulas Shorn shows up, chats with ST and Cot about the Hounds, chats with Karsa/Trav/Samarand steals their horses, then helps out against the HoLs, taking three of them out of the fight.


Were these the same undead dragon????

Because the tone of the first undead eleient's chat with Kallor is completely different from any of Shorn's subsequent conversations, and I think they are different beings. But the sequence of events seems to suggest they were the same.

So were there more dragon escapees from Hood's warren? Was Shorn playing a double game?

Thoughts?


- Abyss, was dead once but got better....

[HoosierDaddy]

Abyss;354677 said:

This is driving me nuts...

An undead dragon escapes Hood's warren in the gate Quell and Gruntle used.

An undead dragon shows up by Kallor's camp, wakes him up and says it's looking for a new master, the CG.

THEN undead draconic soletaken Tiste Edur Tulas Shorn shows up, chats with ST and Cot about the Hounds, chats with Karsa/Trav/Samarand steals their horses, then helps out against the HoLs, taking three of them out of the fight.


Were these the same undead dragon????

because the tone of the first undead eleient's chat with Kallor is completely different from any ot Shorn's subsequent conversations, and I think they are different beings. But the sequence of events seems to suggest they were the same.


Thoughts?


- Abyss, was dead once but got better....

I think they are one and the same. Perhaps the discovery of his pets rattled him as much as it seems to have in the conversation he has with Cots and ST.

[caladanbrood]

I'm fairly sure it was only one dragon. I imagine he might have known who Kallor was though, so he... moderated his tone, somewhat.

[Kurt Montandon]

Abyss;354677 said:

Thoughts?

They're all the same guy.

This should be very obvious, but I suppose you might be drunk or something.

[Optimus Prime]

Kurt Montandon;354869 said:

They're all the same guy.

This should be very obvious, but I suppose you might be drunk or something.

I wouldn't go that far. As many times as SE has thrown us for a loop, you may end up eating those words.

I can see how they seem to be different....the tones are different and who the hell knows what Tulas wants...besides the throne of Shadow back...maybe.

[Ammanas]

I agree with Optimus. I remember several HIGH rep people insisting over and over there were NO Hounds of Light or Daru tyrants. It's obvious nothing we say or think about this series means shit which is, of course, what makes it worth reading.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Ammanas;354947 said:

I agree with Optimus. I remember several HIGH rep people insisting over and over there were NO Hounds of Light or Daru tyrants. It's obvious nothing we say or think about this series means shit which is, of course, what makes it worth reading.

To be fair, the author explicitly stated before this book that there were no Hounds of Light. It's not like the forum made up a conventional wisdom out of nothing and then started enforcing it.

I'm not sure who was insisting there was no Tyrant.

[Tarr]

Tulas said he can't remember how he died when chatting to st and cot but the dragon who talks to kallor says he can.

It could be the same dragon, two different ones or a dragon with a split personality theres no way to tell.

[Illuyankas]

And Tulas couldn't have lied, because?

[Tarr]

Tarr;355003 said:

It could be the same dragon (i.e. tulas shorn)

Its not likely there could be another dragon pretending to be a dead one is it?

[Illuyankas]

Maybe it's one with a skin condition.

[caladanbrood]

I think we should place little trust on info gleaned from his meeting with ST and Cot - He was rather discombobulated after discovering the Hounds, after all.

[kalmavet7]

caladanbrood;355030 said:

I think we should place little trust on info gleaned from his meeting with ST and Cot - He was rather discombobulated after discovering the Hounds, after all.

haha not to mention in our brief time w/ old Tulas he seemed to be quite the manipulator. i wouldn't put it past him to give ST & Cot a different personna than Kallor. or maybe dying and returning a couple millenia later isn't the healthiest thing for an Edur's psyche.

[Abyss]

Interestingly, in the section where Tulas altitude drops three HoLs, he muses in a way that suggests he was working for Hood the entire time.

Note also that Catographer, another supposedly 'escaped' dead, was shown to be working for Hood.

So, at a minimum, two undead were allowed to escape Hood's realm specifically to further Hood's plan.

So perhaps Tulas, in draconic form, was deliberately misleading Kallor to inform him of the Jaghut v Death war.

Of the undead dragon that escaped via Quell's portal was the one which Kallor met, while Tulas was released 'off screen' by hood.


- Abyss, never trusts a dead guy...

[caladanbrood]

Abyss;356015 said:

Interestingly, in the section where Tulas altitude drops three HoLs, he muses in a way that suggests he was working for Hood the entire time.

Well yes, I imagine it was a big part of the deal. I'll let you go, if you give some Hounds a little flying lesson. He wouldn't have let him go otherwise, I imagine it was all very deliberate.

[Cause]

I might be talking nonsense. But tulas shorn is mentioned by elendist. He has a last name k?????? something. He says that he loved violence.

He says he is tulas shorn to shadow throne and tole kallor his name as k??????. So yes I think its the same name.

As an aside. Anyone else curious that his name is tulas shorn. As in shorn perhaps like trull was from the edur people?

[caladanbrood]

Kagemandra.

[Tarr]

When talking to Kallor he never gave his name.

[Illuyankas]

Hmm, I thought it was Kagamandra Tulas Shorn, without the e.

[caladanbrood]

Possibly. I don't think the one letter matters much