[Binder of Demons]

Just listened to an interview with Anthony Thomas, the director of the feature length TV documentary, "The Qu'ran". Sounds like it will be a fascinating program, and educate a lot of people at the same time. I only wish i had access to watch it.

It's being broadcast on Channel 4 in the UK, monday night at 20:00 (July 14).
http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites...ates/quran.html

You can download the interview with Simon Mayo here
it's 23mins long, and approx 11mb.

[stone monkey]

I'll probably be staying in to watch this. It sounds like proper, old-school documentary making that assumes there's an audience out there who are prepared to put in the work if they want to undestand something and have an attention spans that are not measured in milliseconds. Which is something we don't see anywhere near enough of on tv nowadays.

[caladanbrood]

So did anyone watch this? I never realised that the Qu'ran gets just as twisted for people's own purposes as the Bible does. Intruiging.

[Mezla PigDog]

I watched it. Big fan of the dude that said "I hope I don't offend the British women but if they were all circumcised, they'd be a lot purer". Thanks for that.

It was a really interesting documentary though. The theories of that German (Prof Luxembourg) scholar were a bit conveniently Western, didn't you think? Obviously they were picking out the most pertinent parts of his book but it came over as Western orientalism to me.

From the point of view that has Islamic Fundamentalist horror stories thrust in my face by the media all the time, it was comforting to hear the average Mohammed saying what their beliefs are. We all know they're out there, but they rarely get a media platform.

The most interesting bit for me was having it explained why a lot of the Muslim world has a problem with the way the Western world treats them. I kind of knew why already, but he spelled it out well.

Religious people scare the shit out of me.

[Wordmerchant]

caladanbrood;351621 said:

So did anyone watch this? I never realised that the Qu'ran gets just as twisted for people's own purposes as the Bible does. Intruiging.

I thought that was the reason for having a religion?:confused:

[Binder of Demons]

Cool. I'll have to track down a copy of this program. Hopefully it'll be shown on NZ tv but i doubt it any time soon.

The interview i heard with the filmmaker was good, and it sounded like it would be a quite balanced piece. Glad it seems to have been the case. Despite having traveled and worked in the middle east, my knowledge of Islam isn't really as good as it should or could be.

I like when you can get a good primer for a subject like this.

[stone monkey]

caladanbrood;351621 said:

So did anyone watch this? I never realised that the Qu'ran gets just as twisted for people's own purposes as the Bible does. Intruiging.

How sweet. I've actually forgetten what it was like to be that young and trusting.

Anyway, I watched this and it was very interesting despite a lot of it being information I knew already. It was good to see individuals' reflections on their faith. Very well balanced I thought.

I too agree that the german guy's theories seemed a little too Christian-centric; although, to be entirely fair, by the time of the Prophet Christianity was a major force in the world, so there would probably have been a certain amount influence on the language used in the Qu'ran.

Was the documentary maker the same guy who did the excellent series The Power of Nightmares for the BBC? Because his voice sounded very familiar.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

If you go to the Channel 4 website, they have a thing called 4oD which is free to download and let's you watch all their shows, 95% of them free. Not sure if you have to be in the UK or not, so apologies of it doesnt work.


As for the documentary itself, I only caught about half an hour of it, but I personally thought it said absolutely nothing new or that I didnt know already. My godfather is a sunni and for as long as I can remember he's been going on about people twisting the Qu'ran to suit their ends. He has an especially big gripe with Saudi Arabia, who are apparently behind the mass distribution of more Wahabbi-style Qu'rans, usually for free, which have certain passages edited or removed to allow for a more fundamentalist reading. One thing I think they touched on in the programme about Jews and Christians being accepted into heaven and to be tolerated as equals as long as they worship God and are good people has conveniently gone due to this.

Islam is no more or less violent than any other mainstream religion. It gets focussed on now because to a lot of people in the west it's different and new, and people always fear what's different. You get the occasional whacko in all religions, that's no reason to view a billion people with suspicion. Im pleased that at least C4 are highlighting that it's not the fault of the religion, but I am concerned that people needed to be told this in the first place, tbh.

[caladanbrood]

stone monkey;351664 said:

How sweet. I've actually forgetten what it was like to be that young and trusting.

Lol, more because I never bothered thinking about it before;)

[Cougar]

I thought it was pretty run of the mill myself, didn't say a whole lot that was too different. I agree with Toby on one thing, Islam isn't inherently more violent than any other religion it's just that there is a large number of people who have an axe to grind with the largely christian/secular west who happen to be muslim, if they weren't so damn poor and feeling that they were being marginalised then no-one would be able to exploit Islam and the Koran in this manner.

Why would circumcision make women purer, cos sex would be a bit dull? Seems odd.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

It strikes me as the argument of a man who's shit at sex.

"Yeah well Im glad you didnt come, you're not supposed to enjoy it bitch!"


*cough*

Not that Ive, er, ever used that line myself, of course...

[stone monkey]

Cougar;351724 said:

Why would circumcision make women purer, cos sex would be a bit dull? Seems odd.

It's supposed to make them want sex less. And therefore not serve as a temptation that would lead pure hearted men astray...

And very depressingly, depending to what extremety the procedure is performed, it can make it physically painful or in the very worst cases impossible to have sex.

There are times when I hate the world.

[Mezla PigDog]

Well, considering they cut off the labia and clitoris and then sew everything up leaving only space to urinate and for menstruation, it's going to dampen the desire to have sex somewhat. The loving husband gets to cut the stitches enough to provide access on the wedding night and a midwife is kind enough to cut the rest during childbirth. It doesn't quite compare to male circumcision really!!

[Thelomen Toblerone]

*vomits*

Words...cannot...

WRONG

[Mezla PigDog]

To get back to the documentary though. I was interested to see how Sharia law works in Palestine as (without really thinking about it) I always assumed it was like those awful African states where women get stoned to death and ..... stuff.

[Cougar]

I don't think female circumcison always runs to such an extent, I think it can be a bit less drastic, although any option seems unecessary. It's not like we get assaulted on the street by hordes of over-horny women all the time is it.

[stone monkey]

The inference seems to be that it really does depend on your local Imams and their personal readings of the Qu'ran as to how your society treats you.

The stuff on the veil was interesting - I used to know a lass who wore a hijab before she married and then stopped afterwards because her husband asked her not to.

[Illuyankas]

Really, anyone advocating female circumcision in any form needs to be punched in the face, to death. I'm surprised you never heard of it until now, Toby - Bidathal was doing it in HOC all the time.

[stone monkey]

As I recall there was a thread on it in the HOC forum.

[Taciturn]

"You need to be within the UK or the Republic of Ireland to watch Channel 4 programmes."

How else could I watch this?--my interest is piqued and it's sorta hard for me to let things go...