[Greymane]

**SPOILERS**













I was interested with the revelation of the Jaghut war on Death itself, and how this relates to the confirmation that Hood is, in fact, a Jaghut. Any speculation? Did the Jaghut go to war against Death because one of their own had become the King of House Death? Or is it the other way around, did Hood somehow end up as the God of Death because of that war? Or is it something else entirely?

[Flawed]

I also found that whole notion interesting. I think i missed so many underlying naunces that we are supposed to get, that it all lft me a little confused to be fair.

Why did it touch Kallor so? What did they actually war with? The minions of Death? Like the armies presently being generalled by WJ etc? Or the force of Death?... and how do you do that?

As to why Hood is actually A Jaghut i dont know.

We have read before that there is an even older realm of the dead, the jaghut realm. Did the Jaghut war againt an old version because of its utter end? The choice it gave was just oblivion? Did they war with that result , sarificing enough of themselves to create a new realm now gaurded and controlled by the best of them all?

So they warred to create a new realm that delivers upon death an after life and perpetual beginig in which there is always something new.

The sacrfice that was for every living thing not just themselves.

I need a re read already and i havnt even finished the book.

Handsome

[Use Of Weapons]

For me it's a reflection of our own cultures' respective clashes with the concept of death, and the creation of various afterlives to negate its power over us. Even the Jaghut's power over Ice, and its ability to retard the biological processes of death. I think we only really started to get hints of this in MOI, and then much stronger hints in MT with Gothos's elimination of death in Letheras.

I also think that, for Kallor, death may well have lost any spectre of fear it might have had. He was made immortal, but is unable to reap any benefit from that, and so it seems to me that he might welcome death and the end to struggle that it represents. But at the same time, he _is_ immortal, and so has to try to find some meaning in his life as he persists day to day. To discover that the Jaghut were attempting (so it seems) to grant that day to day struggle for meaning to everyone would surely rock his sense of selfhood and maybe even his sense that the struggle was futile. Perhaps he feels less alone now. It certainly makes him hugely interesting as a character (even given that he was previously quite interesting anyway).

But I certainly think that Hood became the Lord of HHD because of the Jaghut war. Maybe he felt he could do more 'on the inside'.

[Greymane]

Perhaps they won the war itself, and deposed the previous God of Death, only to find that this is one throne that cannot remain empty. Hood (maybe the leader of the Jaghut forces?), took the responsibility on himself, and stepped into the role, before some other, less responsible Ascendant could take it.

[Illuyankas]

The scene from RG of the Throne of Ice and Hood's corpse (always nice to have a theory you - and almost everyone else - thought of since you read the third book proved correct) seemed to suggest to me that Hood relinquished his life for the Throne of Death after the Imass killed all his family. It looked a lot more personal than doing it to stop anyone less qualified from the job.

[HoosierDaddy]

Just a theory here, but why are the Jaghut and F.A. immortal? Could it be because they weren't always, but they fought death (remember there were F.A. in that scene) and somehow earned immortality from it?

Millions of Jaghut and some F.A. band together to defeat an implacable force, do so, and are broken in return. We wonder why they have so little care for each other, maybe in winning their war, they actually lost. If time has no meaning, what is the point of doing anything now You have forever to do what you wish, and I imagine it doesn't take too long for people to start to annoy you. Thus a race that likes solitude.

As for the F.A.: They worship balance. Maybe defeating death and becoming immortal taught them a lesson, that there should be two sides to every coin and immortality is a one-sided one.

[Raraku]

Oh thats a good way of looking at it.
There were also Eleint who participated in the war against Death.
After their war, they were possibly at a similar impasse as the current events with no one claiming the Throne.
Then along came the Imass and killed the already broken forces of Hood and his remaining Jaghut.
Thus Hood moved away from the Throne of Ice to the Throne of Death.
This is purely speculative so please poke holes in it.

[Osseric's mortal sword]

My first impression is the opposite of everyone else's or so it seems. My theory runs that the Jaghut known as Hood was the first of the Jaghut tyrants and so the armies of Jaghut, eleint, FA, went to war against him. Him having control over both the throne of death and of ice would make him pretty powerful afterall. When they failed, other Jaghut began to see the attraction of becoming tyrants....
Just my humble theory, poke holes in it as much as you want.....

[Tuffy]

My impression was that either the previous god of death was cruel and many things died and they wanted to dispose of him or their were no immortals and they wared with death were some people wouldnt die. it says in the book that they were getting badly defeated because as soon as they died they just switched sides, but then somehow Hood became king and they won. My thoughts anyway

[Grief]

Perhaps the whole idea wasn't that they hated death, just that they hated someone else having control over it, so deposed them.

[Osseric's mortal sword]

So why had Hood until recently got his behind firmly planted on the throne?

[Aptorian]

Before he became king of death he was called the deathwanderer.

There is also an older realm of death, perhaps the hold, the Jaghut call the bridge of death.

Perhaps hood guarded this realm, after he left his body on the icethrone he walked the edges of death like Edgewalker.

[Cougar]

Just to point out a small flaw in Hoosier's theory, the FA are not immortal, they are just:

'profoundly long lived' to paraphrase

check the wiki for the exact quote.

I felt that as said the Jaghut went to war to end the finality of death, to create something afterwards, whether this lead to them creating the Jaghut realm of the dead or emptying it I've no idea.

[Morgoth]

what I thought reading about this, especially because it touched Kallor so, is that Death as more.. finall.. That those who died were discarded perhaps.. or to phrase it better that there was no such thing as an afterlife. No rest for the dead, like in Letheras, or perhaps like the floor of the Abyss? ...

The Jaghut declared war on this version of death and Hood the lord of Ice (and thus possibly the most powerfull of them, but perhaps just as much the only one wanting the position seeing as he was a bit of an eccentric) became the new lord of death. I could imagine the seeming immortality of the remaining Jaguth was a result of the war..

Though, mind you, there's a lot of undertones and I'm kinda feeling that I've missed something obvious.

Then, there's the K'chain Che'malle, whom subjugated the Jaguth and made them their slaves. Did they do this before the war? Where the KC on the other side? Perhaps they enslaved the dead as they enslaved all others they came across, though this last part belongs more to the crazy theory thread

[graller]

I don't recall the K'Chain subjugating the Jaghut... But there is also the war ongoing between the Jaghut and the Forkrul Assail as well.

[Illuyankas]

There was a passage in MOI where Kallor, Korlat and Silverfox are talking about the KCCM, and about how the Jaghut were treated the same by the KCCM as their Tyrants treated the Imass.

[blackzoid]

As a result of the new info in Toll, I got the impression that the Jaghut are much older then we thought they were. Now I think they were there before the Deragoth and the KCCM. This war against death may have been the main point behind the break up of the Jaghut civilisation.

My opinion?

Hood led the war against death, was defeated,and in a compromise solution became the lord of death in order to make death "fair". (I'm thinking of DEATH from Terry Pratchet's Discworld series here)
My prediction for the future is that Hood will reclaim the throne of the Jaghut and will rejuvenate Omtose Phellack. Or at least thats what his intention is.

Did anyone else notice in Toll the Hounds that it was metnioned that the Forkrul Assail and the Jaghut had opposite temperaments. Yet in Midnight Tides, Ruin said that there was the occasional alliance between them.

[Beld]

It seems at least as likely that Hood was involved in the war against death. Seeing that he could not prevail... that every loss on his side provided more armies on the side of death, Hood took the throne of death and exempted the Jaghut from it's sway. As much of a victory as he could win.

[HoosierDaddy]

graller;352379 said:

I don't recall the K'Chain subjugating the Jaghut... But there is also the war ongoing between the Jaghut and the Forkrul Assail as well.

The Jaghut were originally slaves to the K'Chain as the Imass were originally slaves to Jaghut tyrants. What ongoing war between the Jaghut and F.A.? There aren't a whole lot of either around right now running around.

[Obdigore]

I still think that Hood is going to become a good of Justice, due to his last actions, the stuff he does while he is in Daru.