[phart]

Not sure how to avoid spoilers with the "hover" part hopefully this fixes it, if not give me instructions and i'll do it.







Damn so my favourite character dies a final death, he won't be coming back i think.

To be honest he had to die before the end, too powerful a character in mind and body to have around at the end.

What a remarkable person been hugely annoying to not have him in any books (since MOI) with just titbits here and there. Also GOTHOS gave him that much PRAISE, only person who he respected, as soon as i read that line i knew for certain he was going to die. To be honest after DU helped Rake get into Draginspur (I say helped as i think Rake who might have still lost to DU "in a fight" had planned to go in and sword out the mess in person) i was a bit shaky was this meant to happen and obviously the clues about it being "wrong" were there, but still. . . . then of course i rememebered who i was recalling and sat back reading awaiting Rake and by extension Erikson to amaze me once more.


Anyway my question is: Why was DU needed? Couldn't Rake just kill himself or get Brood to do it? That way protect the sword much better? Obviously it makes for better reading to have DU do it but seems elaborate.

also i know think there is no doubt DU is the pre-eminemt blade master. Though one could argue i suppose that since Rake knew he had to lose he therefore did.

What do you guys think?

[Illuyankas]

Well, remember that Dragnipur was weighed down with Hood and all his armies at the time. And also that Rake would need someone trustworthy and powerful to look after Dragnipur once he had been killed by it.

[phart]

Illuyankas;341512 said:

Well, remember that Dragnipur was weighed down with Hood and all his armies at the time. And also that Rake would need someone trustworthy and powerful to look after Dragnipur once he had been killed by it.

Very true more i think about it the more i realise loads of folk were coming for it.

Incidentally who were the light if the hounds master who they were there to get the sword for?

[Illuyankas]

Maybe the Hounds were going to take turns holding it in their mouths and doing driveby legseverings?

Or, more seriously, Father Light...

EDIT: Oh, yeah, this thread also has a massive spoiler present when you hover the mouse over the title. Can you fix the first line so it doesn't do this? Despite it being blatantly obvious that TTH is Rake's swansong, it's still a bit of a bugger to read it before you get the book.

[Obdigore]

Illuyankas;341523 said:

Maybe the Hounds were going to take turns holding it in their mouths and doing driveby legseverings?

Or, more seriously, Father Light...

The hounds of darkness do not serve Mommy D, so I don't know if we can assume the HoL serve Pappa L.

[Illuyankas]

I'm not assuming it, they may really be working for themselves. But as figures who may have been trapped in the moon go, he's an obvious choice.

[Quick~]

To be honest we should probably assume they were serving someones ends xD I doubt they just happened to arrive there and just happened to approach the sword.

Main candidates have to be FL and Osserc I'd guess in terms of named entities.

[Obdigore]

True enough.

Can we say Osseric is Daddy L, or is someone else? I am under the impression that Osseric is the Liosan version of Rake. That would mean there is some sort of actual Daddy L we have not yet met, since Mommy D is now real and not a creation myth.

[Obdigore]

Quick - Yes, they were trying to get the sword for their master. It says so right in the book, they were serving someone.

[Quick~]

Obdigore;341537 said:

Quick - Yes, they were trying to get the sword for their master. It says so right in the book, they were serving someone.

I remembered that >_> <_<

anyway I was also under the impression Osseric was the Liosan version of Rake

[o-bomb]

ok...spoiler conversation...





continuing the DU/Rake line of questions. Can anyone clarify how DU was "cheated"? Was it because he (and everyone else) knew that Rake was sacraficing himself? The description of the fight makes mention of how Rake was holding the blade high and they crossed in a cruciform pattern, so I assumed this was planned, but the rest of the fight did not make sense and if that was the case why did they (ST & CT) have to break DU to do it? The sacrafice "theory" seems out of place with the rest of the battle. Did Rake feel he needed the greatest challange to go through with this? He essential sacrificed himself to heal the warren and he could only do this from the wound? Conceptually I am all there, but the act seemed out of place with Rake's chacter? Thoughts?

[Veilside]

Obdigore;341527 said:

The hounds of darkness do not serve Mommy D, so I don't know if we can assume the HoL serve Pappa L.

RotCG spoiler

Spoiler

Kyle's weapon is posessed by Osseric, and he appears in Shadow Keep when Kyle meets up with Dassem and they go have a picnic with ST and Cot. So we definitely know that Osseric's active around the time the Hounds of Light appear.

o-bomb;341968 said:

ok...spoiler conversation...





continuing the DU/Rake line of questions. Can anyone clarify how DU was "cheated"? Was it because he (and everyone else) knew that Rake was sacraficing himself? The description of the fight makes mention of how Rake was holding the blade high and they crossed in a cruciform pattern, so I assumed this was planned, but the rest of the fight did not make sense and if that was the case why did they (ST & CT) have to break DU to do it? The sacrafice "theory" seems out of place with the rest of the battle. Did Rake feel he needed the greatest challange to go through with this? He essential sacrificed himself to heal the warren and he could only do this from the wound? Conceptually I am all there, but the act seemed out of place with Rake's chacter? Thoughts?

He was cheated because he didn't get to kill Hood and then he was cheated from killing Rake himself.

[o-bomb]

Veilside;342116 said:

RotCG spoiler

Spoiler

Kyle's weapon is posessed by Osseric, and he appears in Shadow Keep when Kyle meets up with Dassem and they go have a picnic with ST and Cot. So we definitely know that Osseric's active around the time the Hounds of Light appear.

He was cheated because he didn't get to kill Hood and then he was cheated from killing Rake himself.

I got the impression that he did not want to kill Rake? I get the impression that ST & COT put him up to fighting Rake and he did not care to know the details..just that he would stand in his way to getting Hood? As I think more about it I get the feeling that DU was the weapon and Hood, ST, COT and Rake were wielding it? The book ends with an interesting discourse between ST & COT regarding the events leading up to the fated moment...still digesting

[Obdigore]

Yes, Dassem did not want to face Rake, but he was determined to get his vengeance (haha) on Hood. ST and Cot only helped him so that he could be there at the correct moment to kill Rake and put him in the sword. They knew he would not pick up Dragnipur... I think the challenge was to get the other people there to help protect the sword.

Their Timing was Impeccable, as they said it must be in the beginning of the book after they give the water to Dassem.

[souhai]

phart;341483 said:

Damn so my favourite character dies a final death, he won't be coming back i think.

To be honest he had to die before the end, too powerful a character in mind and body to have around at the end.

Yes I feel sad at not having him around anymore. SE created a character worthy of awe and sorrow. Brilliant!

[Veilside]

o-bomb;342392 said:

I got the impression that he did not want to kill Rake? I get the impression that ST & COT put him up to fighting Rake and he did not care to know the details..just that he would stand in his way to getting Hood? As I think more about it I get the feeling that DU was the weapon and Hood, ST, COT and Rake were wielding it? The book ends with an interesting discourse between ST & COT regarding the events leading up to the fated moment...still digesting

He didn't want to kill Rake, but when someone stands in the way of his vengeance, he tends to kill them, hence why he fought against Rake. His vengeance is his sole purpose for existing, and he kills anyone that gets in the way of that.
Now that Hood's going to pop back up, who knows how Dassem's going to react.

[vaiski]

Veilside;345623 said:

Now that Hood's going to pop back up, who knows how Dassem's going to react.

RotCG spoilery:

Spoiler

I thought that the last scene with Dassem and Hood - "Greetings, Dessembrae... for I see you are here now in that aspect" - takes place after the end of TtH?

[buddhacat]

vaiski;345632 said:

RotCG spoilery:

Spoiler

I thought that the last scene with Dassem and Hood - "Greetings, Dessembrae... for I see you are here now in that aspect" - takes place after the end of TtH?

I don't think so. I think Dassem travels to Genabackis after the conclusion of RotCG and is delayed by Mael and rescued by ST and Cotillion (beginning of TtH).

[Veilside]

buddhacat;345635 said:

I don't think so. I think Dassem travels to Genabackis after the conclusion of RotCG and is delayed by Mael and rescued by ST and Cotillion (beginning of TtH).

I agree with you.
It doesn't make sense for that event to happen post TtH.

Spoiler

And isn't Hood acting as King of HHD at that moment?

[vaiski]

RotCG:

Spoiler

Good points both, I was thinking it was post TtH because Dassem is a god in that scene and in TtH when he is close to dying of dehydration he clearly isn't.
But it's true that Hood is still at his old role.