[Old Hunch Arbat]

The Malazan series has provided me with more hours of enjoyable reading than any other works of fiction, as I have read all novels three times...somewhat compulsively as my wife will eagerly point out to anyone who asks...since the date of GoTM's availability on Vancouver's bookshelves. And as of July 22 I will have been able to enjoy the marvel that is reading, for 51 years - reading voraciously since I was 6 years old, but now definitely feeling my age.

Wondering/marveling at the efforts of Erikson and Esslemont as they generate name after name for the cast of characters introduced as the story line unfolds (unravels? ) is a significant aspect of that enjoyment. Reflexively I respond to the layers of meaning, suggestion, and significance each name provokes. I thus offer a few names for "analysis" and look forward to hearing from others (and doesn't the use of that word, in itself suggest some odd association between a visual act - "reading," and the act of "hearing"?) as they lend me their own interpretations of names, so I can add new depth to my enjoyment as I wait, ever so patiently (NOT!) for TTH to appear on my local Chapter's shelves.

ANOMANDER RAKE : This is a complex name for me - Commander/Salamander (sorry) evoked by the first. The "salamander" attribute references, perhaps, his Eleint/Dragon nature, reduced, inevitably, as that nature is fixed in the mortal world. And as I edit this post I start to think that this first name also raises the possibilty od ANOMAly, as well. Rake's second name presents itself for a similarly ambivalent expansion/reduction - Rake: a dissolute or profligate person, esp. a man who is licentious; roué, AND to fire guns along the length of (a position, body of troops, ship, etc.). : to bring to light, usually for discreditable reasons : to scrape; scratch: The sword's tip raked his face lightly. etc. And when we learn that his name, more completely revealed is PURAKE I involuntarily add Puerile: of or pertaining to a child or to childhood, but I chose to forgoe the less flattering definitons of that word.

I suspect I'm missing something more noble, intimidating, and powerful in my listing of evoked names, because Rake impresses me more than those names would suggest. Additions welcome.

Sorry, that was a long analysis, and ambivalent in its meaning. Something easier:

TEMPER : the degree of hardness and strength imparted to a metal, as by quenching, heat treatment, or cold working, and : heat of mind or passion, shown in outbursts of anger, and at the same time: calm disposition or state of mind, and further : to tune (a keyboard instrument, as a piano, organ, or harpsichord) so as to make the tones available in different keys or tonalities. Temper is my favorite character in the entire series. I love how ST scuttles back inside the Azath House as his bonny laddy steps outside the pub, looking, perhaps for a little conflict to resolve.

RHULAD : Rue - sorrow; repentance; regret: pity or compassion, and Lad - a boy or youth. I have, for the most part, felt a great deal of empathy for Rhulad. He is appallingly conflicted, and he probably embraced his ultimate demise.

OPPON : This immediately brings to mind the layered meanings of "opposition", and "opponent", which fits nicely with the dual nature of the god/godess, and the implied internal conflict, as well as the oppositional stance this god might have with entities and events outside itself. Oppon's pull and push activities usually iritate me for some reason. Hmmm, I wonder why. :cool:

Some names seem not to elicit any analytic response for me (Apsalar, Kalam), but may do so for others, and others are heavily laden/freighted with meaning. However I'm sure you all get my drift here. Rather than go on and on (the fund of names and imparted relevance is huge) I welcome the posts of others, with their analyses of their favorite names.

As a personal note to Steven...I'm leaving on vacation for 2 weeks of lying on my ass on Hornby Island (Heron Rocks) on August 5. Could you please INSIST that Chapters shelves your book as soon as they receive it?! Last time they held your book (RG) for 5 days in some bloody storage room as I phoned day after day, urging them to PLEASE get the book out of the box and into my hands, so I could happily give them my money, then lay back for a day or two of power-reading (quick, quick, what happens?!), thus stopping the sweats, chills, and insomnia that seems to appear each time one of your books (or Ian's) is due for publication? And then I immediately read it again.

Peace out.

[Old Hunch Arbat]

Reviewing this post with my daughter allowed her to point out that "Purake" also invokes the notion of "pure." An appropriate response methinks.

I'd really like to hear from others.

[Greymane]

There's the obvious ones first. A cotillion is a dance, a suitable name for the man once known as Dancer. Whiskeyjack is a bird, though I didn't know this at first, so I thought the name implied some form of alcoholism or just a love of drink.

Others;

Dassem Ultor. Ultor always invokes ultimate for me, which fits Dassem's seemingly unparallelled fighting skills.

Laseen. I don't know why, but it always makes me think of something reptillian. Cold blooded.

Coltaine. Colt invokes a young horse, though that doesn't really fit with my image of Coltaine. Perhaps a more general inference of speed and power?

Gruntle. Disgruntled. Seems a pretty close fit to the man's personallity. Also, grunt is slang for a lowly soldier, and Gruntle basically rejects the office of Mortal Sword and chooses to remain a common mercenary.

Bottle. A vessel? Bottle is also slang for courage.

Iskaral Pust. Pust invokes pustule, a pimple filled with puss or some sort of inflamation. Something unsightly.

Icarium has a very close connection to Icarus, a figure from Greek mythology, but there doesn't seem to be much of a resemblance with Icarium there. Icarus flew too close to the sun on artificial wings. Perhaps Icarium's obsession and ego led him to cross the line, resulting in his amnesia?

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Greymane;340897 said:

There's the obvious ones first. A cotillion is a dance, a suitable name for the man once known as Dancer. Whiskeyjack is a bird, though I didn't know this at first, so I thought the name implied some form of alcoholism or just a love of drink.

Others;

Dassem Ultor. Ultor always invokes ultimate for me, which fits Dassem's seemingly unparallelled fighting skills.

Laseen. I don't know why, but it always makes me think of something reptillian. Cold blooded.

Coltaine. Colt invokes a young horse, though that doesn't really fit with my image of Coltaine. Perhaps a more general inference of speed and power?

Gruntle. Disgruntled. Seems a pretty close fit to the man's personallity. Also, grunt is slang for a lowly soldier, and Gruntle basically rejects the office of Mortal Sword and chooses to remain a common mercenary.

Bottle. A vessel? Bottle is also slang for courage.

Iskaral Pust. Pust invokes pustule, a pimple filled with puss or some sort of inflamation. Something unsightly.

Icarium has a very close connection to Icarus, a figure from Greek mythology, but there doesn't seem to be much of a resemblance with Icarium there. Icarus flew too close to the sun on artificial wings. Perhaps Icarium's obsession and ego led him to cross the line, resulting in his amnesia?

Nice list. Icarium always sounded like a metal to me, though I doubt that has any great symbolism or meaning.

[Old Hunch Arbat]

Lol Iskaral Pust.

Eschar: hard crust or scab, as from a burn.

Thus we have a scarred pustule. An apt name for the quintessential High Priest of Shadow - speaking of which it would seem that the demon/creature named "Apt" is exactly that when considering her origins.

Oh yes -doh- I'll post exactly what I was reading when the idea for this post arose in the first place. I'd actually forgotten the name I wanted to discuss, having pondered this post for about 10 days before actually getting to it. And during that time the origins of the idea slipped my mind. Having a (several, actually) seniors' moment.

[grymauch]

I like the interpretation of Icarium's name. When I first read GOTM, I (incorrectly) thought it reflected his being a designer/builder of machines: but it was actually Icarus' father who was the inventer.

[D'rek]

I've always wondered at characters with such similar-soundings names, like Withal and Wither, Buruk and Baruk, etc. (not to mention Clip-Clip and Pearl-Pearl). Makes me wonder why SE didn't go with more distinctive names since he is just making them up anyways...

[Shalok-Gul]

hedge - he didn't hedge his bets at coral and got blow up ( as this is the rg forum i assume everyone has read moi) could also refer to him being ugly and the phrase 'you look like you have been dragged through a hedge backwards

tarr - gone over in the books

mallet - possibly a joking reference to the only anesthetic available in the olden days

as for the icarum icarus thing, icarus' father dedalus warned him hot to fly to close to the sun but icarus didn't listen, that could be a reference to gothos not wanting to be rescued thing

[BeLeG]

I have to say that when I read the name Anomandaris Purake the word "pure" came to my mind.First son of darkness.Even though he drank Tiam's blood he's still the most important Tiste Andii etc...

Greymane is inside my mind about the name Dassem "Ultor"

[Lisheo]

Silchas Ruin: Ruin implys the obvious, the ability to destroy, but could also mean destroyed. Silchas, for me conjures up the word silk, something smooth, which definatly doesnt fit my image of Ruin. He's all jagged edges, altho when in the barrow he was able to persuade everyone to help him...

[Old Hunch Arbat]

Here's what got me thinking about the relevence of names in the Malazan series: it's a quote from a book I'm reading about 20th Century music ("the Rest is Noise"), and the author writes about Mahler's Sixth Symphony, which was premiered in Essen, a German steel town in the Ruhr, close to which was situated the armaments firm of Krupp. Apparently the audience didn't like the music very much and one critic wrote "...Krupp makes only cannons and Mahler only symphonies." Wikipedia has good write-ups for both Krupp and Mahler.

Music aside the quote started me thinking about our dear friend Kruppe, an apparently fat and jovial fellow, most unlike the members of the Krupp family in terms of temperment and intentions, but enormously powerful and influential - and good intentions nonetheless, much like the Krupp family in Europe during the period of the two World Wars. I cannot help but think that Erikson was fully aware of the association which would be drawn between his character and an enormously influential munitions manafucture/industrialist family, one of whom was tried as a war criminal after both World Wars, found guilty twice...and got "off the hook" in both cases.

Although dear Kruppe seems altogether selfless and friendly we know he's powerful, influential and deeply involved, one wonders about less altruistic motives at the end of the day....?

Although the names of persistent characters (Rake, Quick Ben, etc.) reveal possibilities of influence over the whole series, some of those who may appear in only single books have names of significance and implied effect. Unidaas for instance *unites* a number of entities whithin himself, and exerts a *uniting* influence on the characters he spends, apparently, years wandering around with.

Of those whose larger influence has already been apparent, and who will no doubt continue to appear in upcoming books names reveal much.

Kallor has a name that implies both callousness and heat (Calor).

Mallik Rel to me implies maliciousness, relativity/relationship, and religion.

Korbal Dom certainly invokes the notion of domination, and his first name starts with a "K" and thus sounds harsh in its utterance (now that was a bit of a stretch, no?).

I have found that other names seem entirely neutral, and, for me evoke no emotional response - Apsalar, Kallam, Ammanas, Tayschrenn - leaving their alignments and ultimate intentions defined by circumstance and therefore ambivalent. Is this intentional? And do any of those names imply, for others, qualities defined solely by their names?

I'm enjoying other's posts. I particularly like having my response to names expanded. I certainly got the "ruin" part of Silchas Ruin, but "silk" is a nice addition.

[D'rek]

BeLeG;341024 said:

I have to say that when I read the name Anomandaris Purake the word "pure" came to my mind.First son of darkness.Even though he drank Tiam's blood he's still the most important Tiste Andii etc...

Isn't Anomandaris Purake just a shortening of Anomandaris Dragnipurake, which he modulated his name to on occasion after he obtained Dragnipur?

Following on that, notice how Dragnipur contains the word "Drag", which those inside sort of have to do? I guess Townipur and Pullnipur just didn't have the same ring to them...

Dokter said:

Although the names of persistent characters (Rake, Quick Ben, etc.) reveal possibilities of influence over the whole series, some of those who may appear in only single books have names of significance and implied effect. Unidaas for instance *unites* a number of entities whithin himself, and exerts a *uniting* influence on the characters he spends, apparently, years wandering around with.

Unfortunately it's Udinaas, not Unidaas, so this is a bit of a stretch.

(Note: A'karonys is not a fan of Mahler so I could be biased)

[Old Hunch Arbat]

Aaah me. But why quibble? I'm thinking of a thread I started earlier (Re: his "uniting" abilities)...

http://www.malazanem...ead.php?t=10025

I'm sorry but I don't know how to reference that thread in a more truncated way (like with a label) so have to put in the whole URL.

As I read that book (really fast the first time, just to see what happens) I read his name "Unidaas" so the association has stuck. My bad.

And as Rake's name continues to expand, as we know more about him, and it is more fully revealed, my impression of him changes, albeit slightly, each time it gets longer. Anyone have easy access/recall of his entire name?

[bhok'arala]

Greymane;340897 said:

There's the obvious ones first. A cotillion is a dance, a suitable name for the man once known as Dancer. Whiskeyjack is a bird, though I didn't know this at first, so I thought the name implied some form of alcoholism or just a love of drink.

Others;

Dassem Ultor. Ultor always invokes ultimate for me, which fits Dassem's seemingly unparallelled fighting skills.

Laseen. I don't know why, but it always makes me think of something reptillian. Cold blooded.

Coltaine. Colt invokes a young horse, though that doesn't really fit with my image of Coltaine. Perhaps a more general inference of speed and power?

Gruntle. Disgruntled. Seems a pretty close fit to the man's personallity. Also, grunt is slang for a lowly soldier, and Gruntle basically rejects the office of Mortal Sword and chooses to remain a common mercenary.

Bottle. A vessel? Bottle is also slang for courage.

Iskaral Pust. Pust invokes pustule, a pimple filled with puss or some sort of inflamation. Something unsightly.

Icarium has a very close connection to Icarus, a figure from Greek mythology, but there doesn't seem to be much of a resemblance with Icarium there. Icarus flew too close to the sun on artificial wings. Perhaps Icarium's obsession and ego led him to cross the line, resulting in his amnesia?

if i remember correctly historical wiccans were a pagan religion which relied on horses to travel. and SE's wickans are a collection of tribal horse warriors leading back to colt.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Great thread.

Dokter;341114 said:

And as Rake's name continues to expand, as we know more about him, and it is more fully revealed, my impression of him changes, albeit slightly, each time it gets longer. Anyone have easy access/recall of his entire name?

He's been called Anomander Rake, Anomandaris, Anomander Irake and Anomander Dragnipurake. Can't think of any others just now.


Some ideas.

Caladan Brood: this seems like a loaded name, but I can't think of anything good for it. Caladan seems like "Caledon," which is very celtic. And brood could be either a family/tribe or a state of introspection.

Tattersail: sail - something that pulls you along, takes you where you want to go. A positive thing. Tatter - damaged, well-used but not broken. Seems appropriate, she's a weary but well-meaning character.

Gothos: gothic? Old, grand?

Withal: wherewithal - fortitude, strength, competence? So-so match for the blacksmith.

Clip: not sure, but I hope he gets clipped.

Crokus: like a flower? Decorative but not very practical?

[D'rek]

Dolorous Menhir;341175 said:

Tattersail: sail - something that pulls you along, takes you where you want to go. A positive thing. Tatter - damaged, well-used but not broken. Seems appropriate, she's a weary but well-meaning character.

While that dissection is still appropriate, Tattersail is nevertheless an actual name in use on this planet, so it could just be a name he likes, akin to ICE naming one of his characters 'Kyle'

[Dolorous Menhir]

Someone noted above that Whiskeyjack is a bird. It's also an anglicised Native American deity - Wisakedjak.

[Tapper]

"A said:

I've always wondered at characters with such similar-soundings names, like Withal and Wither, Buruk and Baruk, etc. (not to mention Clip-Clip and Pearl-Pearl). Makes me wonder why SE didn't go with more distinctive names since he is just making them up anyways...

Hmm, I always thought that names sounding quite alike, like Buruk and Baruk, etc. just shows how languages and dialects affect commonly chosen names, just like in our age and time: John and Jon are both common versions of the same name, expand it to other languages and you'll get Jan (Danish, also Dutch) Johan (Dutch, probably German as well) and probably a myriad of variants. Examine Alexander (originally "saviour of men") and its modifications and abbreviations: Alex, Lex (both saviour in Greek), Xander, Sander, Alessandro, and so on.

"Dolorous Menhir" said:

Crokus: like a flower? Decorative but not very practical?

The original Krokus was a pretty youngster with whom Apollo fell in love - he died during an athletics competition/friendly sporting contest when the god's discus hit him in the head. Apollo then turned his blood into the crocus, so that Crocus and their love would be immortalized. In a certain sense, Crokus turning into Cutter is also a rebirth, born out of love (pretty much made clear by both Appsalar and Cutter himself).

[Shalok-Gul]

Dolorous Menhir;341175 said:

Crokus: like a flower? Decorative but not very practical?

To add to that, cutter, sharp, hard what he is turning into

[Lisheo]

Cutter, lacking subtlety, something that cuts straight to the point, which is exactly what he does when becoming an assassin to declare his love for Apsalar.

Hull Beddict: Hull, the main body as a ship, protects those inside lol, an ironic name as he couldn't protect the tribes. Not sure of Beddict tho.

Bugg: like bug, an insect, something most ppl would view as insignificant, a perfect name to reflect his disguise as a manservant.