[Thelomen Toblerone]

@ Shin: VOTE FOR OBAMA!!!

There's one for ya.

Does anyone think Obama's wife's speech will help swing some undecided votes? I personally just thought that Obama's done pretty well for himself with her. Let's face it, he's not the most handsome of men.

[ch'arlz]

Thelomen Toblerone;375166 said:

Does anyone think Obama's wife's speech will help swing some undecided votes?

I think his wife and daughters (who stole the show) did him a lot of good with undecided and independent voters who may not know much about Obama and his family. She gave an eloquent speech and those kids...

[frookenhauer]

From what I seem to be getting here in England, it always seems to point to the fact that its a hard road ahead for Obama. In terms of the news and reports and shows in America, whats the general consensus over there? Is the media behind him, or the geriatric bus pass owning Bushite.

Are we actually going to have a Black American President? Or are all our hearts going to break?

[Shinrei]

The media loves Barack. The love fest they gave him on his international tour was ridiculous.

Personally, I can't watch the mainstream news anymore. I watch the news to get the NEWS. These days its just political analysis 24/7, and I'm sick of it because the majoritiy is all just verbal masturbation at this point. I want to go back to the time when election coverage really didn't start in earnest until August of the election year.

[Terez]

Well, I usually don't consort with the sort of people who are stupid enough to think that they get an actual say in our elections. But non-Americans are certainly welcome to try to convince me that one candidate is better than the other, or debate on other issues that are relevant to our politics. It's just as easy for non-Americans to stay informed on the subject as it is for us thanks to the internet, and I've known quite a few Americans that are far more apathetic about American politics than people who live elsewhere. It's fairly easy to see why...

[ch'arlz]

I don't believe one can point to a "general consensus" yet, and may not be able to right through to the general election. Modern political elections are orchestrated to deliver a plurality of voters through polling and media messaging designed to denigrate one's opponent and incidentally to inform voters about positions on issues. Obama has tried to change that formula, but his shrinking lead indicates he'll not be able to keep that up. There are lots of reasons for that but the primary one imho is that the Jeffersonian ideal of an informed electorate doesn't exist. For example, more than 200 million Americans watched the Olympics on television whereas fewer than 20 million will view any part of the conventions. Most people get their (mis)information on candidates from family, friends, neighbors and whacko internut sources. I'm still hopeful that Obama's message will break through to the great unwashed somehow, but the whole process is rather distasteful.

[Terez]

ch said:

I'm still hopeful that Obama's message will break through to the great unwashed somehow, but the whole process is rather distasteful.

It really is...especially when the Repubs are constantly bitching about Obama's "fluff" speeches, as if he doesn't have real ideas or informed opinions. A scary majority of the country just isn't interested in all that - and that goes for both parties. People's politics are, in general, determined by how they are raised - just like religion.

[Shinrei]

Obama's "fluff" speeches are what gained him the popularity to beat Hillary. When it comes to their platforms, there are not a whole lot of real differences between the two of them, so the sweeping "Hope" and "Change" rhetoric is what Obama is riding on to the Democratic nomination.

[Terez]

Shinrei no Shintai;375766 said:

Obama's "fluff" speeches are what gained him the popularity to beat Hillary. When it comes to their platforms, there are not a whole lot of real differences between the two of them, so the sweeping "Hope" and "Change" rhetoric is what Obama is riding on to the Democratic nomination.

Exactly. And there's nothing really wrong with that, in my opinion - if that's what it takes to win votes in this country, then by all means do it - personality cults aren't so bad if they're for a good cause, you know. I really don't think Obama is the type to abuse it...

[Cougar]

Bearing in mind the (relative) unpopularity of the encumbent Republican administration, do you think it would even be much of a contest if Obama wasn't black?

I've only been to America a few times and I wouldn't profess to have met a true cross section of the populace (mainly educated business people or students) but I find it hard to believe that there are enough swing voters for whom race is an issue greater than say war or economics?

[ch'arlz]

30% of those polled still think Bush is doing a good job. While that may be near the bottom for modern U.S. presidential approval, it's still almost one third of the electorate. Racism in the U.S. is alive and well, particularly among older white men and in certain geographical regions. We've come a long way, viz. a major party nominating an African-American for president, but there's still a substantial number of people for whom race will trump all other considerations. The question is whether they're part of that 30% noted above or in addition to.

[Shinrei]

I saw an editorial today that I thought was clever.

What if McCains VP pick = Condoleezza Rice?

A black woman VP? The Hillary supporters might come to McCain in droves and Rice might bring some of the black voters, particularily women, as well.

[McLovin]

But has someone who has never held elective office ever been picked as VP? Even Cheney was a congressman at some point, right?

[ch'arlz]

McLovin;376090 said:

But has someone who has never held elective office ever been picked as VP?

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_Presiden..._United_States:

Quote

Additionally, every vice president as of 2008 except John Adams, Chester A. Arthur, Henry Wallace and Garret Hobart has served as a Congressman, Senator, or Governor.

Adams and Hobart held state/local elective offices whereas Arthur and Wallace appear to be virginal in this respect.

[Dolorous Menhir]

McLovin;376090 said:

But has someone who has never held elective office ever been picked as VP? Even Cheney was a congressman at some point, right?

That's true, but Cheney's main claim to experience was as a Bush I Cabinet Secretary (Defence) rather than as a Representative. It's undeniable that Rice has a similar experience level.

The reason Rice won't be picked is because she's a member of the Bush administration. Simple as that.

[Shinrei]

Dolorous Menhir;376115 said:

The reason Rice won't be picked is because she's a member of the Bush administration. Simple as that.

So simple, I don't understand why not....

[Dolorous Menhir]

For the same reason McCain doesn't call himself a Bush Republican? For the same reason that the approvals of the President are at historic lows?

Put it this way - Rice is a central member of an administration that people do not want to see continue. She's not stained with the same reputation of incompetence or ideological recklessness as some of her fellows, but I would argue she has not distinguished herself in the position.

Given that, her selection as vice-presidential candidate would be an obvious naked political play based only on her race and gender. I think it would just be downside for McCain.

[frookenhauer]

Shinrei no Shintai;375732 said:

The media loves Barack. The love fest they gave him on his international tour was ridiculous.

Oh good! There's something quite poetic about a black man in a white house, but I just can't put my finger on it.

Terez;375735 said:

Well, I usually don't consort with the sort of people who are stupid enough to think that they get an actual say in our elections. But non-Americans are certainly welcome to try to convince me that one candidate is better than the other, or debate on other issues that are relevant to our politics. It's just as easy for non-Americans to stay informed on the subject as it is for us thanks to the internet, and I've known quite a few Americans that are far more apathetic about American politics than people who live elsewhere. It's fairly easy to see why...

Yeah we could actually go and research about a subject that merely interests us, or we could ask people at this forum and get the answer with minimum effort, but at the risk of some minor ridicule...Small price.

Go OBAMA!

ch said:

I don't believe one can point to a "general consensus" yet, and may not be able to right through to the general election. Modern political elections are orchestrated to deliver a plurality of voters through polling and media messaging designed to denigrate one's opponent and incidentally to inform voters about positions on issues. Obama has tried to change that formula, but his shrinking lead indicates he'll not be able to keep that up.

So yeah, tough times ahead for Obamaman and his Black Panther wife But I do hope he sticks to principled methods for getting into that big white villa for as long as possible. Is Mcains transformation into an older Bush clone helping him in any way? Cheers

Here's another thing that's nagging at me. From what I gather Bush pretty much lost two elections by the narrowest of margins yet managed to get elected and then stay in power. Many Black people in America stated that they were unable to cast their votes. Will this continue in this election?

[Terez]

Eh, you're getting into conspiracy theories, Frookie. Shut up and let DM represent your country.

[RodeoRanch]

McCain says "STOP!"

Obama says "What? No."