[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Tiste Simeon;340466 said:

I would love to see how she is taking it in private...

Now there's a video I would pay to see...

[Shinrei]

Dolorous Menhir;340445 said:

So you're not interested in whether it works, or how successful it is, just whether or not it sounds good?

I can see why you like McCain's economic policies then.

Is this directed at me? If so, I'm confused, so I'm guessing its not directed at me.

Can you be more specific in explaining this comment, because I'm confused.

(and in reply to RLY, I'm not a reaganomist either. I don't trust mccain on economic issues, but I can perhaps trust that he wont raise my taxes as obama will per those articles I posted)

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Shinrei no Shintai;340555 said:

(and in reply to RLY, I'm not a reaganomist either. I don't trust mccain on economic issues,

Well, we certainly agree on that then.

[paladin]

Dolorous Menhir;340445 said:

So you're not interested in whether it works, or how successful it is, just whether or not it sounds good?

I can see why you like McCain's economic policies then.

again, hes not talking about ebay as a corporation, hes talking about what ebay started. a successful marketplace for smalltimers. current ebay policy has hurt the company, but since inceptions its been incredibly successful and on a company success basis the stock has risen at incredible rates even if it has flatlined recently.

the economic policy i agree with is promoting the people to help make themselves successful through their own hard work rather than the government blowing hotair up everyones asses trying to make them feel happy through social programs and taxing the "priviledged".

[Obdigore]

Want to know what McCain will do if elected? Look Here.

Remember kids, nuclear fallout is fun for the whole world!

[Tiste Simeon]

Those operations are so covert, CNN is reporting on them... :confused:

[Obdigore]

Reporting on money allocated to them by the public government.

[Obdigore]

Ok, Has anyone seen the McCain TV adds?

They say he has a solution to the 'oil price crisis.' This includes drilling on american soil, and attempting to research other sources of energy.

As has been noted in thread, drilling on american soil is going to nothing for gas prices for 7+ years.

[Shinrei]

Obdigore, Um...investing and coming up with viable alternatives to oil isn't going to help much in the immediate 5-10 years either, so that argument isn't very compelling.

It's gotta be a mix of both.

[HoosierDaddy]

I've been an Obama man since the primaries began. I wouldn't have had a problem with McCain until he started what the Republicans/Conservatives started calling flip-flopping from the "Republican Maverick" to "Bush Light".

PS: I just love the "Barack Hussein Obama" and "John McCain". Come on, either put in his middle name or call it what it is: Loaded.

[Obdigore]

Shinrei no Shintai;341862 said:

Obdigore, Um...investing and coming up with viable alternatives to oil isn't going to help much in the immediate 5-10 years either, so that argument isn't very compelling.

It's gotta be a mix of both.

I know. But drilling expensive oil on US soil isn't going to fix anything like he keeps claiming it is.

I just felt like including what he claims his whole plan is, instead of just showing one side.

[paladin]

obdigore, do you want to lower us dependence on foreign oil? this will help that. leftists routinely talk about how the us shouldnt be world police and they should live and let live, but its difficult when you're dependent on other countries to fuel your economic engine(both literally and figureatively).

US based oil will not only lessen the influence of other countries on US foreign policy(and domestic policy), it will also take out the effect of the falling dollar from the price of oil, as the dollar vs the euro et al means nothing to an insulated economic structure. that would mean nationalizing or highly regulating the industry when it comes to use of US oil though(ie. oil pumped in the US must only be sold and processed in the US)

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I don't think the US produces nearly enough oil to support itself, even considering the violation of Alaska. We're going to be dependent on someone unless we cut consumption to nearly impossibly low levels.

[paladin]

but if you work to reduce consumption AND use other types of resources, using american oil will only help

and i absolutely hate how everyone in the media, on the internet, whatever always makes everything out to be all or nothing, now or never when it comes to issues like this. gradual change is a million times more practical even if its not the best thing for the environment or the most cost effective. electric cars failed because they are too different from what people know. hybrids require people to do nothing different, which is why they are very successful on the whole, its gradual and people can accept it. oil is the same thing. you need to gradually shift people away from oil and you need to use stopgaps in the meantime, like american oil, to help offset the incredible cost of oil on the international market.

[Obdigore]

paladin;341890 said:

but if you work to reduce consumption AND use other types of resources, using american oil will only help

and i absolutely hate how everyone in the media, on the internet, whatever always makes everything out to be all or nothing, now or never when it comes to issues like this. gradual change is a million times more practical even if its not the best thing for the environment or the most cost effective. electric cars failed because they are too different from what people know. hybrids require people to do nothing different, which is why they are very successful on the whole, its gradual and people can accept it. oil is the same thing. you need to gradually shift people away from oil and you need to use stopgaps in the meantime, like american oil, to help offset the incredible cost of oil on the international market.

It IS all or nothing once you start drilling in protected environments.

I have an idea. Let us eat the monetary hurt we have accumulated over years of super-cheap oil. Let the private sector realize that there is HUGE money in changing it up, and do something about it. I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut, but do you really think the Car/Engine makers aren't looking back on their agreement with the oil companies, and deciding if they should still honor it or not?

I don't want to sound like an environment nut, and I am not, but since it is a federally protected wildlife zone, screw the oil companies that want to drill there. They have thousands of acres of offshore sites they are not tapping.

Let people find different ways to spend their money, or lower their individual dependance on oil.

[paladin]

im not just talking of alaska, which is so utterly humungous im not sure why we're not drilling more. im talking of all the offshore sites we have reserves confirmed at that we arent drilling(in the gulf, on the pacific coast, etc). black hills in south dakota is another significant reserve that remains unutilized.

then you have all the shale oil in the rockies. canada has its oil sands they are trying to develop into viable resources but noone is really working on shale oil here eventhough the us has between 2 and 3.5 trillion barrels worth of shale reserves and the richest quality shale yet seen(green valley deposits, which accounts for at least 1.5 trillion barrels). a bit of nimbyism does exist here as some of the reserves are in/near cities like Aspen, CO and such.

on top of that you have coal technology. coal can be converted into a fuel for vehicles, good clean coal technology exists, and the US again has the largest coal reserves on the planet.

so yea, there are plenty of things the US can do thats not just in anwar in order to alleviate foreign oil dependence. congress wont take action for the most part and it will continue to hurt us economically until someone convinces them into action

[Obdigore]

Again, the oil companies are not touching the sites they already have, why should they be awarded more? Getting oil from those sites is still more expensive per barrel than what the oil companies are paying now, so why would they do something about it?

[paladin]

congress needs to jump in to push it. its difficult enough to develop a viable oil resource without government regulations. i can imagine how futile it must be to get all the permits/approvals, meet all the environmental standards, etc.. not to mention building the processing facilities for all of that new oil. its simply simpler to do it somewhere else. if the government would push we would see some results i imagine

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

paladin;341890 said:

electric cars failed because they are too different from what people know.

This is not true. Electric cars failed because of a deliberate effort by oil companies and auto manufacturers to kill them off. Watch "Who Killed the Electric Car." It'll piss you off.

[paladin]

Yes, and watching Bowling for Columbine tells an accurate story of gun control too eh?

The maker of the documentary was an EV1 leaser yes? Little bias?

I've lived in So Cal my whole life. I remember the EV1 and the humungous TV campaign pushing the vehicle and then only seeing ONE EV1 EVER on the road in subsequent months and years. People don't want something that different. They don't want to plug in for 20minutes or 20hours to wait to drive. The reason the electric car(specifically the EV1 as in the documentary) failed where the hybrid has not is because society doesn't give a shit about being "green" in any way possible, they give a shit about being inconvenienced. This doesn't mention the fact that gasoline was a dollar a gallon at the time. Folks that are adamant about this stuff are the vocal minority, just like in nearly every hotbutton issue.