[DurhangAddict]

The search seems to be broken at the moment, ("Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing or mismatched.") so I apologize if this has been asked before.

I was under the impression from later in the series that being a Soletaken or D'ivers was sort of like having a disease, and they didn't get to choose their forms.

I'm on my third re-read of the series and at the beginning of DG. There is a scene where Mappo and Iccy are met by Ryllandaras in the form of 6 desert wolves. Mappo comments that the last time they met Ryllandaras was D'ivers jackals then.

This would seem to indicate that they are not "locked in" to a particular form, but I don't recall any other instances in the series that would support this...

[Wampyry]

[QUOTE=DurhangAddict;309140]The search seems to be broken at the moment, ("Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing or mismatched.") so I apologize if this has been asked before.

I was under the impression from later in the series that being a Soletaken or D'ivers was sort of like having a disease, and they didn't get to choose their forms.

I'm on my third re-read of the series and at the beginning of DG. There is a scene where Mappo and Iccy are met by Ryllandaras in the form of 6 desert wolves. Mappo comments that the last time they met Ryllandaras was D'ivers jackals then.

This would seem to indicate that they are not "locked in" to a particular form, but I don't recall any other instances in the series that would support this...[/QUO

Drmatis Personae list Ryllandaras as White Jackal, D'ivers; treach remembers Ryllandaras as a White Jackal; and Mappo says to the D'ivers
that he last remembers him as White Jackals D'ivers. Mappo also says to
Icarium, I know him but, tonight he has taken a blood-spilling form.
So, we can rule out misprints. As the D'ivers and Soletaken fight one another
the victor increases his power somewhat. Don't remember any other incident
where a D'ivers changes from one form to another. Treach throw Ryllandaras off a cliff, maybe he landed on a wolf;)

[D'rek]

Deadhouse Gates is the novel containing by far the most Soletaken and D'ivers, and as you say, there are no other references so far to D'ivers that can change their form. While many D'ivers have found ways of increasing the number of forms they can divide into, Ryllandaras is unique in that he has found a way of changing forms. However, I would note that all his known forms (there are four last time we heard, I think) are all very similar - they are all medium-sized wolf-like creatures. Nevertheless, it's still a neat trick!

[Aptorian]

I don't think that D'ivers/soletaken'ism is a desease. While I believe we hear about some being born, most soletaken or d'ivers we've seen became soletaken by their own will. So they most likely chose their form aswell.

The problem with being soletaken is that if you stay in your form in extended periods or you "let loose" you risk losing yourself. Being soletaken is a primal chaotic state and therefore mastery is something special. Ryllandras seems to be a powerfull soletaken with a lot of control. It would seem that he has learned to shape himself into more than one form.

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

I don't think they're the same thing, outside of being shapechangers.

If only because if all soletaken could gather enough strength or power to veer into more than one form, I think some of the soletaken ascendants (at least) we've seen to date would do so...

I think Ryllandaras was always able to veer into more than one white jackal, but the singular name stuck. Because as we see later on, if they get beaten and lose a "body" as such, they still remain that creature inherently, and if gathering enough strength, will just generate another one, of the same ilk - white jackal.

Until he gets bored, goes into wolves, and throws my weird little ideas out the window.

I guess what I'm saying is I think if every D'ivers started off Soletaken then we'd see more of them kicking around.

[caladanbrood]

Ryllandaras appears to be a particularly powerful D'ivers though, so it would be no suprise if he could do a lot more than other shape-changers. There's plenty of stuff about him in MoI, which we can't discuss here.

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

Eek. Well, Gryllen seemed powerful enough without going into the realms of what I might put my foot in... ~meeps along~

[Aptorian]

I'm pretty sure it most certainly does not say that.

EDIT: It says it's a higher order of shapeshifting... Which could mean anything.

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

I think for D'ivers the way of knowing their strength is the size of the animal and how many...

Gryllen had rats, but in their hundreds...

Ryllandaras is medium sized and eight or nine... But can also master other similar forms, jackal/wolves.

And then there's the leopards who die early on, six or so I think.

As for Soletaken, lets all bow down to the Dragons>tigers>bears.... Oh my!

[Sinisdar Toste]

the one d'ivers that really terrified me was that damned bloodfly one. like dude that is some scary incests swarming right there. surprised me that we hadnt heard of it before, he coulda depopulated a city!

[Aptorian]

Well, a telas mage would probably take care of the fly-d'ivers in a jiffy.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I think Ryllandaras is a special case.

FAQ entry for d'ivers (note - spoilers for rest of series) link

[DurhangAddict]

Thanks for the input everyone. I may return to this thread with more questions/info as the re-read continues...

[bhok'arala]

i know this thread kinda already ended but wasn't Ryllandaras a mass of seething rats a long long long time ago?

[Aptorian]

What would make you think so?

Gryllen is the only Rat D'ivers we've heard of so far if I'm not mistaken.

[bhok'arala]

was it gryllen? i know that there was some refernce to a rat di'ivers and i guess i just accidentally ascribed it to ryllandaris

[Aptorian]

Ryllandaras was the White Jackal D'ivers.

Gryllen, the tide of madness as the Malazans call it, was a Rat D'ivers.

[Silencer]

Apt is right.
If memory serves:
We've had an ants d'ivers
A wasp d'ivers
A bear soletaken (Messremb)
A dhenrabi d'ivers
A shark? d'ivers
A demon soletaken
Numerous dragon soletaken

And that's all I can remember.
Sorry if this is been posted already but I didn't bother reading page 1. Most of these were seen in DHG, in Sormo's dream/Tellann thing.
Also as a side-note: Ryllandaras is supposed to have 'mastered the different forms of shapeshifting'. So he's pretty good.

[bhok'arala]

i found another, its a deduction though: pg 545, excerpt. and another on 592
by Trout Sen'al Bhok'arala - about the path of hands.

[acesn8s]

Does anyone else wonder is there is an Eleint D'ivers (or incase of a D'ivers, just Dragon?) out there somewhere?