[bhok'arala]

technically he only killed 1/7 of it since it was a di'ivers but he still killed one. the rest went to the deragoth and apsalar at Poliel's Palace

[Venerus]

lasombra;298438 said:

'The Hounds of Darkness.The seven beasts that dessimbelackis made pact with - and oh, weren't the Nameless Ones shaken by that unholy alliance? The seven beasts, L'oric, that gave the name to Seven Cities, Although no memory survives of that particular truth. the Seven holy Cities of our time are not the original ones, of course. HoC p 607 uk

That quote doesn't demonstrate how long there were only seven left. We don't know how long it was between the failed KCCM invasion of 7c to the time when there were only 7 Deragoth left. All we know is, the KCCM invasion efforts failed because of Deragoth, maybe seven, maybe hundreds. No figures are given.

[Mentalist]

well, if you consider that at the time of the K'Chain invasions the Imass weren't even around, not to mention the humans that would evolve from them, it's a safe bet that millenia have passed ...

[lasombra]

lol do ur self a favour go read the Rararku memory part HoC. Osric witnsed the 7 pwn 3 skykeeps.

When Osric says, 3 skykeeps have come and been owned by the deragoth.L'oric asks what r deragoth Osric Replies with "the 7 hounds"

Note "THE 7" . Not more.

[Venerus]

lasombra;298793 said:

lol do ur self a favour go read the Rararku memory part HoC. Osric witnsed the 7 pwn 3 skykeeps.

When Osric says, 3 skykeeps have come and been owned by the deragoth.L'oric asks what r deragoth Osric Replies with "the 7 hounds"

Note "THE 7" . Not more.

You're making too much of a leap with the information given. Osric says he's seen three skykeeps brought down by Deragoth. When L'oric asks what the Deragoth are, Osric says they're the same [type of] creature as the seven beasts that Dessimblackis makes pact with. That doesn't mean there are only seven left at that point in the timeline; it's ambiguous. Osric is just making it easier for L'oric to understand what he's talking about.

In RG, there's a line where it's pointed out that the hounds dessi made a pact with were the last seven, not the only seven to have ever been.

Yes, the passage you're indicating (and the prior scene where L'oric sees seven Deragoth) would make the most sense if there had only ever been the seven, but it's more than likely a mistake on SE's part (HoCism). Since RG was most recent and it's there that SE says there used to be more Deragoth, I'm gonna stick with that. Info in later books usually trumps earlier ones.

It boils down to a timeline issue, and SE is no good with the timeline. Fortunately, as has been mentioned before, inconsistencies in the timeline don't matter much.

[lasombra]

im just working with the given info yes. I know @ time more deragoth existed, but osric just making L'oric understand?He states those particular 7.clearly distinguishing them from the rest. Just my PoV

[Venerus]

lasombra;298811 said:

im just working with the given info yes. I know @ time more deragoth existed, but osric just making L'oric understand?He states those particular 7.clearly distinguishing them from the rest. Just my PoV

And it's totally valid, I think there's enough in the writing to read it that way, definitely. At the same time, take a look at how confusing this is, from tBH:

Quote

[Ganath] Eyed the black stone monuments. "Dessimbelackis. One soul made seven -- he believed that would make him immortal. An ascendant eager to become a god--"
"The Deragoth are far older than Dessimbelackis," Paran said.
"Convenient vessels," she said. "Their kind were nearly extinct. He found the few last survivors and made use of them."
Paran grunted, then said, "That was a mistake. The Deragoth had their own history, their own story and it was not told in isolation."
"Yes," Ganath agreed, "the Eres'al, who were lead unto domestication by the Hounds that adopted them. The Eres'al, who would one day give rise to the Imass, who would one day give rise to humans."

From HoC, L'oric and Osric:

Quote

"What of those half-humans that ran with these Deragoth?"
"A quaint reversal, wouldn't you say? The Deragoth's only act of domestication. Most scholars, in their species-bound arrogance, believe that humans domesticated dogs, but it may well have been the other way round, at least to start. Who ran with whom?"
"But those creatures aren't humans. They're not even Imass."
"No, but they will be, one day."

So, the history of the hounds, before there were only seven of them, was the domestication of the Eres'al, which fits nicely with Raraku's memory, we see it happening through L'oric's eyes... The Eres, who preceded humans, preceded Dessimbelackis. How can the seven Hounds in Raraku's memory be Dessi's when the seven in Raraku's memory are hanging with Eres, who were here and gone way before human empires (and both Osric and Ganath say as much)? The FE of humans was started long, long after the FE of Imass, who themselves were the children of the Eres.


The only ways it makes sense is:
-SE sucks at keeping his own timeline
-Raraku's memory is flawed
-Osric is referring to what the Deragoth will come to be, not what they are at that moment.

My personal theory is that SE just made a mistake, and the seven Hounds in the Raraku memory fragment is a slip-up. THE seven shouldn't be able to be around for hundreds of thousands of years until after KCCM disappeared from Wu.

It's slightly possible that the Hounds in the fragment are the fault of Raraku confusing Dessi's hounds with the Hounds that were around before humans had evolved. In that case, we still know nothing of the Hounds back then.

[Zanth13]

People are really quick to jump on the "mistake" bandwagon when they don’t understand something fully...

I would say wait till we get the full story... and do some rereads.
Just because you/we haven’t figured everything out doesn’t necessarily mean SE made a mistake.

Oh it’s possible (and I don’t care one way or the other) but we don’t know for sure yet. Maybe you’re all just stupid.

[Mentalist]

I'd like to suggest that we may be taking what's written too literally..

I'd expand on that, but I'm feeling tired/lazy atm...

[Battalion]

Zanth13;298847 said:

People are really quick to jump on the "mistake" bandwagon when they don’t understand something fully...

I would say wait till we get the full story... and do some rereads.
Just because you/we haven’t figured everything out doesn’t necessarily mean SE made a mistake.

Oh it’s possible (and I don’t care one way or the other) but we don’t know for sure yet. Maybe you’re all just stupid.

While the theory that we're all stupid has its merrits, and is quite likely the most correct statement I've ever read on these forums, I still think SE makes random mistakes every now and again.

[The Tyrant Lizard]

I'm not stupid - I'm fucking dopey. (one of the seven dwarfs)

[Battalion]

You're fucking dopey? That's gay.

[Venerus]

Zanth13;298847 said:

People are really quick to jump on the "mistake" bandwagon when they don’t understand something fully...

I would say wait till we get the full story... and do some rereads.
Just because you/we haven’t figured everything out doesn’t necessarily mean SE made a mistake.

Oh it’s possible (and I don’t care one way or the other) but we don’t know for sure yet. Maybe you’re all just stupid.

I have no problem with this theory Except for the rereads thing. I do too many of those as it is.

[lasombra]

Not all the eres where xtinct when 1st empire was around. Remember RG.Gral death squads killing the last remaining and Desimbl taking away the last child 1 (presumbly the Eres'al)

[bhok'arala]

key word: presumably. it is the most likely theory however, one that i imply. and even if al the eres were extinct when the first empire came, it doesn't mean they were actually extinct, just not able to be found

[lasombra]

lol is all i can say 2 u bhok'arala

[bhok'arala]

um... thanks?

how exactly did we get from Karsa v Nahruk to the veracity of statements made about the eres'al?