[Obdigore]

Searched forums, there were a couple tad williams threads, but they were mainly MSaT and Otherland, forgive me if I missed a shadowmarch thread.

Meh. Interesting ideas, obviously the beginning of a series, but again Tad misses the ball with long stretches of pretty much nothing happening.

Anyone else read this one (First book only spoilers please) and have thoughts they are interested in sharing?

FIRST BOOK SPOILERS OMG GA IS GOING TO CASTRATE YOU IF YOU READ THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT READING!

Spoiler

I don't understand how Barrick knew whats-her-face (his sister, im horrible with names) was going to become a warrior queen a quarter way through the book? What did the procupine do to Barrick that he has to ride into the shadowlands? And unless the Faerie army is much bigger than the first major force in the field (the one that caught them in the fields outside of the castle and lost) greatly underestimated their size, there is no way the fairies are going to be able to take a castle. Especially one described as it is.

PS - so was 'the shinning man' holding the 'queen' prisoner, and the mirror-thing released her, and now she is being taken back to the twin of shadowmarch?

[Optimus Prime]

I know there are a lot of Tad Williams haters here, but I actually liked his other series, Memory, Sorrow, Thorn and I think this newest one is pretty good as well.

His big weakness is, as Obdi pointed out, the droning on, and on, and on, and on about trivial stuff at times.

[Spindrift]

Tad williams is the author who first got me reading more mature (complex) fantasy instead of the juvenile dragonlance and eddings stuff, so i'm always a bit biased in favor of his work. That said, his books are needlessly long, sometimes to the point of losing interest. Cutting some fat wouldn't harm it.

i can't remember the specifics of SM plot points you asked about, sorry

[Mentalist]

hmm
haven't read it.
currently trudging through volume 2 of Otherland--nopt b/c it's boring, but because of time constraints. I don't hate him so far

[QuickTidal]

My problem with Tad, and actually Shadowmarch in general is that his characters aren't HALF as smart as we the reader are....so we catch on to something pivotal in the beginning that his protagonists don't discover till the end. It was SO frustrating . If you are going to keep your main characters in the dark, then keep your audeince in the dark as well , otherwise it is boring to us.

I doubt I'll bother with the second volume because of this fact.

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

I liked the first book a lot. As stated above, the slow pace gets annoying at times, but I can live with that. It's nothing compared to how slow the later Wheel of Time books are and I've waded through all of those. Seriously though, Jordan, Hobbs, Donaldson (to an extent), Cherryh, etc. can all be accused the same.

[Sparkimus]

Geez I don't remember ANY of that, guess I'll have to do some re-reading bofore I get to the third one.

But I did rather enjoy the first two.

[caladanbrood]

It's strange. I'm certainly a fan of Williams' other stuff. Particularly War of the Flowers[i] and [i]Otherland, but this really didn't inspire. I don't particularly mind his slightly slow style, but the characters just had no interest factor to them, I feel. He didn't make me care about them, and he didn't make me care about the story.

After that, little else matters:(

[QuickTidal]

Resurrecting this thread cause I realized that the third volume SHADOWRISE just came out in hardcover, and with that, and having re-read the first one and liking it a great deal more the second time round, I picked up the MMP for the second one SHADOWPLAY tonight and have begun reading it. Will likely check in later with my thoughts.

[Tarcanus]

Maybe I should try Shadowmarch again. I tried it, got to around page 150, then quit because I was bored and nothing was seeming to pick up pace.

[Abyss]

I caught the first few chapters of the first book when they were first posted online, back when this was supposed to be Williams' big game changing foray into on-line fiction publishing. It failed to wow and then the online effort failed altogether. I'll likely look again when the series is done.

Tad bugs me with his good/bad. MST dragged interminably. i finished it but i wasn't happy about it and it took years. Plus at one point the good elves and the bad elves battle by singing at each other and i bled from my eyes a little bit reading that. OTHERLAND had so much brilliance in it but omg the series was a book and a half longer than it needed to be and some of the filler was agonizing. WAR OF THE FLOWERS was great fun and i wish he did more one-and-done doorstoppers like this.


- Abyss, love/hates.

[QuickTidal]

The one thing that bugged me so much about Briony in the first book was how bitchy and selfish she comes across. She's difficult, at times, to identify with.

That said, I have a feeling that (at 100 pages into SHADOWPLAY) she is being put through her paces in this volume to be smacked down a bit and humbled, and to be quite honest it makes me like her more as a character.

The books are slow at times, but I find that there is enough to interest me from page to page to keep me reading. The other bonus is how expansive the world it takes place in.

I've never read MS&T, but I started this series first, so I'll continue with it.

[QuickTidal]

I find that the smaller side characters drive these books, Ferras Vansen and Gyir the Storm Lantern, not to mention Skurn the raven are so cool each in their own way that Barrick and Briony kind of pale in comparison, but I kind of think that may be the point right now at just over 100 pages in.

[champ]

read the first two and can remember thinking that they were a hard read, slow in places but also great in places, but the ending of the 2nd book grabbed my attention and remember thinking cant wait for the 3rd one but its been that long that i forgot everything that happened heh!

will reread the first 2 and definately buy the 3rd one

[QuickTidal]

Yep, about 200 hundred pages into Shadowplay now, and while it is a bit longwinded I find that every time I start thinking, this passage is getting too long or internal monologue-y....something super cool gets explained or happens. So I keep reading. I thnk Williams just may have found a way to get me to read his overlong work simply by making MOST of it pretty darn interesting.

So far

Spoiler

the Barrick/Gyir/Vansen/Skurn storyline, and the Chert/Opal/Chaven storyline are my faves. Briony/Shaso's storyline is taking a bit to get going but I can tell there is a slow build going on on purpose. The Quinnitan/Pigeon in Hierosoline plotline with Vo on the hunt for them is pretty bloodthirsty too. So far there is a lot to like and only the length and slow bits not to like.

The third one is being touted as Tad's best work in years so far by a few reviewers. Who knows. I'm sure I'll find out.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 01 March 2010 - 10:34 PM

[QuickTidal]

The second half of the 2nd book really does devolve into a lot of "gods" and "Qar" speaking in riddles and have long ass names for normal everyday stuff. That said, it had a fairly good ending, and while I will read the third one, I am going to wait for paperback, and will set aside a lot of time as these things really do drag on and on. I actually can accurately say that say that the first and second book could COMFORTABLY be one volume of about 400-500 pages...not two 600 page volumes. That would make things better, but apparently Williams is cut from the old-school long ass storytelling ways.

So, not great, but good.

[champ]

QuickTidal, on 04 March 2010 - 10:34 PM, said:

The second half of the 2nd book really does devolve into a lot of "gods" and "Qar" speaking in riddles and have long ass names for normal everyday stuff. That said, it had a fairly good ending, and while I will read the third one, I am going to wait for paperback, and will set aside a lot of time as these things really do drag on and on. I actually can accurately say that say that the first and second book could COMFORTABLY be one volume of about 400-500 pages...not two 600 page volumes. That would make things better, but apparently Williams is cut from the old-school long ass storytelling ways.

So, not great, but good.

thanks for the updates, think i will hang fire until the paperback is out then, got enough to read as it is n want to read the first 2 again, even tho i know that will be a battle heh

[globish rip]

just finished the third one will keep impressions general to avoid annoying spoiler tags. the plot still tends towards being painfully contrived & filled with forced mysteries, characters trailing off at just the right moment 2 avoid spoiling plot twists or characters failing to remember important information/ask the right qn. if you took a drink each time one of the principals was given a cryptic, mystic warning and then sputtered "but i dont understand" youd be drunk after 100 pages and dead from alcohol poisoning at the halfway mark.

really i think this is the biggest problem w/ the series (and kinda williams in general) he gives the reader so much more information than the charactes. midway through the 2nd book i had pieced together a general picture of what was going on & how the historical & mythic elements of the plot connected & were influencing the current ones. but even by the end of the 3rd books the characters were meant to sympathize with the most are still groping towards these same conclusions. so its frustrating to read & it made me impatient. like cmon you idiots get it together already.

w/ that said i think the language - in all three books but this one in particular - is really strong. understated but with a good eye for detail and some really nice metaphors and imagery. feel like williams doesnt get enough credit for that. wish he didnt have to insert corny made-up poetry/songs/playwriting into his books tho. & the world is really interesting & well-drawn.