[Old Hunch Arbat]

1. Has Udinaas ascended?
2. Is Trull truly/forever dead?

[Raraku]

1. I dont think that Udinaas has ascended. He s just in the Refugium (spelling) with his son Rud and the other Imass not of the ritual
2. Seems like it (sob sniff) but who knows in SE and ICE s world who knows

[Mentalist]

1) Why would Udinaas ascend? I mean, honestly, aside from his super knowledge, he hasn't done much. Besides, his ideology is to stay out of everyone's way, he doesn't want to be a power with all the threats to one's existance that come from that

2) SE promised us 1 more spectacular resurrectoin in the entire series (i think this was at the time when tBH was out). so, you may believe he'll be back, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

[MTS]

1) i dont think Udinaas has ascended. he hasn't really done that much at all, except chilling with Rhulad for a while, got jiggy with Menandore and fathered a whelp (a Soletaken Eleint whelp, but a whelp nevertheless lol) and other stuff, most of which is immaterial. now he's just chilling in the Refugium, and i dont see him doing anything else in the series, maybe a brief cameo in DoD but i believe his part is done.

2) yeah SE did promise us just the one resurrection, and i hope that it's Trull, so he can come back and maybe try and redeem the Edur. but, as SE adores his tragedy, i don't see that happening. i wonder who will be resurrected...my money is on Tiam. = P

[Old Hunch Arbat]

kud13;284272 said:

1)...aside from his super knowledge...

The question was not meant to be taken, necessarily, literally: rather it was a rhetorical prodding intended to provoke thought. And the quote above makes a pretty good point in itself. "Super knowledge" would seem like ascendant-type attribute simply on its own.

Udinaas did much more than "hang" with Rhulad: he was instrumental in salvaging him as a main character, and thus provides the CG his means of influencing the activities of an entire empire. To continue...

1. Udinaas compels a unity of characters that would otherwise either ignore one another or tear one another to shreds. Seren, Fear, Clip, Kettle, Silchas are all anchored, in one way or another, by Udinaas' presence. At time he provokes, some times he defuses...arguments, debates. He is always a convenient focus for anger, "taking the heat" as it were when called upon to do so, preventing, for instance, Fear, Clip and Silchas from coming to blows. And does he not assist Seren in some way in her efforts to master Mockra, even those efforts sometimes injure him? I'm not sure of that but...

2. Udinaas was the vessel for an Andii spirit and a Wyval. Without him the means of Silchas' salvation would not have been delivered to the dying Azath house. Without him Sandalath and Withal would not unite to guide the abandoned Andii to their new home.

3. In his fever (?of ascendant conversion?) Udinaas summons a god (the Errant) and Menandore to his dreams (not he into theirs) and then laughingly banishes them. Was this not also one of Kruppe's abilities?

4. Udinaas refuses the demands of Feather Witch and the Errant, to become their Shield Anvil - he has the power to do this - he is a character of enormous substance.

5. He fathers "...a soletaken Eleint whelp" Rud Elalle, who is pretty damn powerful in his own right. Although some of that power is undoubtedly a consequence of his mother's origins, his capacity/propensity to refuse her, thus defining most significantly his role in matters that unfold in the Refugium is more typically one of his father's attributes not Menandore's.

I could go on...

Somewhere in this amazing collection of novels is a good description of what it means to be an ascendant - not as defined by strength, but by significance, charisma, ability to effect, etc. - I'll try to track it down. And if it falls easily to someone else's hand please post that description here, hopefully helping me make my point. Udinaas is not an action hero, but, in my opinion he is a persistent, potent influence. Thus my proposal that he is an ascendant.

It's at least a point I'll consider. The story may well ultimately prove me wrong, but until then I find the notion intriguing. I'll just have to wait to see how things turn out. Thank you for your feedback.

Dokter
PS I'll have to get a better name for playing and posting in this forum - perhaps "Old Hunch Arbat"

[Mentalist]

I'll reiterate
"Ascension= you're hardeer to kill" (Apsalar to Paran, tBH)
the part you're looking for, is Ganth talking to Paran in tBH as well, I think

Bottom line--Ascendants= power. that draws power. Udinaas doesn't WANT power. he wants peace. Thus, he may have potential to ascend, but he wouldn't want to ascend.

[Old Hunch Arbat]

kud13;284453 said:

...Thus, he may have potential to ascend, but he wouldn't want to ascend.

...sort of like Ganoes Paran in that respect?

[Mentalist]

heh, Paran was chosen by the Azath. You don't say "no" to the most mysterious power in the known universe.

So, unless you're nominating Udinaas for a new Master of the Holds, no,. Nothing at all like that...

besides, I don't recall Udinaas getting cramps and ulcers from his unaccepted power...

[Old Hunch Arbat]

...and oh yes...have any of you ever had to deal with a passive-aggressive personality. ROFL...tell me passivity and refusal are not palpable, effective and infuriating character attributes.

[Old Hunch Arbat]

kud13;284474 said:

...

besides, I don't recall Udinaas getting cramps and ulcers from his unaccepted power...

He was plagued by fevers and hallucinatory dreams. Might that not be similar?

[Mentalist]

Another thing against your "Udinaas is like Paran" theory

Paran accepted the job, and now he's the only one really looking after the mere mortals.

Udinaas' experiences left him scarred and bitter. I strongly doubt that he''d give a damn about humanity. He'd think of a long speech about how minute their worries are and how it doesn't really matter how many ppl die, cuz life is meaningless...

[Abyss]

On the one hand, in the course of MT Udinaas hosts the wyval in his body (which is apprently sufficient for him to father a draconic child), hides Wither in his shadow, dreamtravels draconic ancestral memory and visits Starvald Demelain and ultimately is healed by an infusion from the blood of a semi-undead Azath seed with a Forkul Assail soul. In RG he is pulled into gods' plots, but exercises his own will to avoid them.

On the other hand, the concept of ascension and Ascendent are VERY wide open. Udinaas is no stronger or harder to kill for having gone through what he did, nor has he gained access to any warren or similar power.

Bottom line, as i see it, Udinaas is VERY intelligent and gained some knowledge and pespective by his various experiences, but he's still mortal.

- Abyss, notes 'scathing wit' doesn't quite count as a warren...

[Venerus]

Udinaas shares some features of QB and Kruppe. He's able to outthink the big boys sometimes, very insightful, dream-powers and knowing-things-ness etc etc. I think ultimately he's a demonstration of The Age of Mortals that Wu is currently in. If anything, he's far too smart to choose ascension.

[Optimus Prime]

Yeah, I'm in agreement with Abyss on this one. Udinaas has one major trait that is extra-ordinary, and that is his wits and intelligence. If he was to ascend...could he ascend into a mega intelligent god? LOL.

About the last remaining spectacular resurrection....who are our candidates?

1) Trull
2) Tiam
3) Coltaine? (Unlikely, since he'd be like a month old and thus not so spectacular in addition to the fact we know he's being reborn.)


I leave WJ out obviously, he won't be back

Felisin, maybe?

[Dunsparrow]

For all we know it could be someone who hasn't died yet.

Otherwise, my money is on Trull.

[Optimus Prime]

Mother Dark suddenly reappearing would certainly be spectacular...although she isn't dead (yet) as far as we know. That and she's probably trapped in a black hole

Dujek won't be back.

Toc? If he really is dead? Which I don't think he is.

[Ammanas]

Dunsparrow;284573 said:

For all we know it could be someone who hasn't died yet.

Otherwise, my money is on Trull.

My potentials are

1)Beak
2)Toc the Younger
3)Trull
4)Any number of possible BB's cept Wjack
5)Heboric
6)Felisin Younger
7)Menandore
8)Sheltatha
9)Sukul
10)Pearl

Well, I won't go into my reasons for disqualifying 8 of the above list but the 2 I feel are most likely are 1)Trull or 2) Heboric

[Mentalist]

Gah
TOC'S NOT DEAD!!!!

That we know of. He never finished walking through the gate. He may yet be very much alive.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Im hoping Pearl, he's just many shades of awesome. And Trull, obviously.

Hedge seems likely to me, and if Toc gets ressurrected again Hood might bust his hoary balls in frustration.

What about this though- ST and Cot's scheming saves the world, then they descend/are ressurrected and become Emperor and Talonmaster again.

[MTS]

lol somehow i don't see ST giving up all his power and settling to rule the Empire again. besides, he refutes the possibility to Tays in BH (well, a return in the immediate future anyway).

i can see Heboric coming back, as the Jade Giants plotline has not been fully resolved yet, and he has been the only one to have intimate interaction with those inside the statues.