[Optimus Prime]

I'm ashamed I didn't even think about Heboric...he seems the most important.

I agree Kud, Toc isn't dead, so I guess that tosses him out.

[Mentalist]

hmmm
I'm gonna say the Otataral dragon, just for the hell of it

[Old Hunch Arbat]

Back to Udinaas...

On pages 417 and 418 (paperback I bought in Vancouver Chapters) there is a beautiful description of how Mockra exerts its effects through language...

...The construction of language, the agreement in principle of meaning and intent, the rules of grammar - Seren Pedac, what did you think Mockra was? If not a game of grammar? Twisting semantics, turning inference, inviting suggestion, reshaping a mind's internal language to deceive it own senses?

And overleaf...

There are rules in language, and language is needed for the stating of the rules.

This suggests that Mockra (what a good name for a school of magic that does what is described here) is not only a warren/school unto itself, but that it can, in turn change, control, manipulate, and, in general, lord it over all other schools of magic.

My question, further to those posed in the thread heading, is...does Udinaas possess the ability to use this school of magic? He seems well acquainted with it (see, for instance, his mocking exchanges with Seren, immediately after she falls and hurts her knees and then transfer the pain to him) and his dreams, summoning the Errant, then tossing him out on his ear, would similarly suggest that he has some sort of magic-based capabilities. And, furthermore (I acknowledge the stretch) is there any reason, reluctance aside, why HE could not become the Master of the Holds? There would be significant symmetry here with Paran and Udinass both wanting to reject power, and in this obvious lack of desire to "be the boss" defining themselves as the most appropriate candidates for the job(s).

And BTW, for further reference there is a recently published hard care sci fi novel "Blindsight" which uses this language theory as the primary premise for its plot. Equally brilliant to SE's writing, but an entirely different genre. There is remarkable congruence in the presentation of this literary theory of language (with which I agree) in these two books, and both stories are entirely convincing.

I still haven't picked a Malazan name, but for today...

An Aroused Nacht

[Adjutant Stormy~]

kud13;284711 said:

hmmm
I'm gonna say the Otataral dragon, just for the hell of it

I don't remember precisely, nor do I have the text for myself here, but wasn't the Otataral dragon still alive? or dormant or something? It sure as hell wasn't a skeleton.

RE: TT- Hedge's already back.

But my opinion, the resurrection is going to be far more important than Trull. I'm terribly sorry, but he wasn't exactly a mover and shaker. Now, Knight and whatever probably counts for something, but really now, he fought Icarium, generally pwned, and then died in a very complete full-circle moment. I'm pretty sure he's as dead as WJ.

My monies are on something big. Like Tiam, perhaps, or Draconus / Dragnipur residents (though are they really dead, really?), maybe Beak (though he went out with a bit of finality).

What I want? Dessimbelackis. or however the fuck you spell it. That dude was a baller, kinda.

[D'rek]

Otataral Dragons is indeed still alive. At least as far as Pearl can tell.

Well SE said one big resurrection left, did he not? The only one we've got a real foreshadowing for would be Toc with his eye-business. I don't think those in Dragnipur count, nor would Tiam as she's already revived herself a gazillion times. And if Dessimbelackis comes back, I'm sure there'd be a way to do it without it being a 'resurrection', neh?

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Trull will be back, wait and see. Because he's never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you, never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye, never gonna tell a lie, and hurt you....

He being the Knight of Shadow gives me hope.

And I'm glad Hedge is back, Fid and Hedge, Hedge and Fid, they go together like Meanas and Rashan.

[Mentalist]

Adjutant Stormy;285002 said:

I don't remember precisely, nor do I have the text for myself here, but wasn't the Otataral dragon still alive? or dormant or something? It sure as hell wasn't a skeleton.

RE: TT- Hedge's already back.

But my opinion, the resurrection is going to be far more important than Trull. I'm terribly sorry, but he wasn't exactly a mover and shaker. Now, Knight and whatever probably counts for something, but really now, he fought Icarium, generally pwned, and then died in a very complete full-circle moment. I'm pretty sure he's as dead as WJ.

My monies are on something big. Like Tiam, perhaps, or Draconus / Dragnipur residents (though are they really dead, really?), maybe Beak (though he went out with a bit of finality).

What I want? Dessimbelackis. or however the fuck you spell it. That dude was a baller, kinda.

There's speculation that Dissimbelackis is the Hounds...

Of course, it's entirely wrong, since Dissimbelackis clearly veered into the 7mules,
Someone Brought up Heboric--that's more likely.
Since Toc's not dead, see no need for him to be resurrected.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Maybe the resurrection will be Pormqual.

[D'rek]

I don't know why you guys think Heboric can come back... his soul is in Hood's realm and that is that. Fener has as much ability to ressurect Heboric as Itkovian, it's the same deal. While we don't particularly know all about the jade thingamajigs, Heboric's tale concluded with Hood keeping his spirit conscious past death so it could raise the giant jade-hands and shield the world from the impact of the flying statues. If that's not a good enough final gesture for Heboric, what could be?

[Imperium Corruo]

Hmm, about the one more big resurrection... If that was stated about the time of The Bonehunter's wouldn't the obvious candidate be Brys in Reapers Gale?

[Mentalist]

yes, it may seem that way, but, once again, we get into technicalities...

"dead" in the Malazan World means your soul is claimed by Hood. Brys's soul nad body were taken by the Guardian, who prolly served Mael.

As for his purpose, it still bothers me, since Tehol ALSO knew the name of that well-god/monster thingy--he was told it in the end of MT, when he got all of Brys' memories.

As for Heboric--he's the only one who knows anything about the Jade stuff. and Hood let his soul out once. given sufficient inscentive, he may do so again.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i can't remember, so, did andarist die? if so then he should get a nod for ressurection. just to give closure to the three brothers story-line. otherwise it's gotta be trull or toc. and to all the toc's not dead theorists. he was as close to dead as you can get without linking arms with hood himself, so a resurection is not out of order for him. ya can't just turn around once you get to hoods gate, unless you got some powerful backing. which toc of course does, but that doesn't make it anyless certain that he has to be ressurected, in the sense that his body and soul must be reunited.

[Imperium Corruo]

kud13;286805 said:

yes, it may seem that way, but, once again, we get into technicalities...

"dead" in the Malazan World means your soul is claimed by Hood. Brys's soul nad body were taken by the Guardian, who prolly served Mael.

I thought about adding some of those considerations in my post, when is dead dead? Is it mere bodily death, for which Toc and Bry's would both qualify? or is it when you pass through Hood's Gate, in which case Bry's and maybe Toc can be said not to have died/be dead.

Depending on how you interpret this, there could be more leeway here than would first be evident.