[rheyn1]

If this has already been talked about, I apolagize... just finished RG. Earlier in the book, they are talking about the order of the champions to face Rhulad. The Segulah female was right before Karsa. I don't have the book infront of me but somewhere towards the end it talked about Rhulad carving his way through champions and the order gets to Karsa, with nothing said about the Segulah. Led me to believe that she was just another in the line of Champions Rhulad defeated. That didn't necessarily happen though. Any ideas about that?

[raath]

She decided to high tail it. She was the one to let Fiddler and Cuttle into the city after they followed the dude who would later kill Trull. It was pretty comical too. They looked down quick so as not to get their heads lopped off.

[Vengeance]

Yeah she decided to leave after Karsa defeated her. By defeating her he was of higher rank and she deferred to his desire to face Rhulad...At least that was what was implied..

[Lancelot]

If you remember when she was sparring with Karsa, he broke both her arms. Presumably after she was healed she decided to leave(in shame???). And that was the point she bumped into Fid and Cuttle.

[Abyss]

Reread the conclusion. She wasn't amongst the champions Rhulad puréed. She leaves the city thru the secret passage Fid's squad was checking out.

Speculation runs that according to Seguleh code, once Karsa defeated her she wasn't entitled to fight Rhulad before him, so there was no reason to stay (once her broken arms were healed, of course).


- Abyss, notes SE at least answered the question about female Seguleh...

[Dolorous Menhir]

I like Abyss' explanation.

She already lost to Karsa, which put her below him in terms of Seguleh heirarchy. So he would get to fight Rhulad first.

I think that makes sense. Seguleh seem to work on that basis - if you beat them in a fight, they'll submit to you.

[Vengeance]

yeah courtship is a dangerous occupation....

[Kurt Montandon]

Actually, I wonder if it was less a matter of hierarchy, and more a matter of fairness. That is, once she found out Rhulad couldn't be killed, she decided that the match wasn't right because he was, in a sense, cheating.

[Mentalist]

sothis means that now Karsa's the Seguleg 12th... while Rake is still the Seguleh 7th...

Lol, Karsa can chalenge him based on that...

[Skywalker]

Dolorous Menhir;284108 said:

I like Abyss' explanation.

She already lost to Karsa, which put her below him in terms of Seguleh heirarchy. So he would get to fight Rhulad first.

I think that makes sense. Seguleh seem to work on that basis - if you beat them in a fight, they'll submit to you.

A Seguleh thinks hierarchically... but I think the opposite would be true.

It was only after Tool beat the lower ranked Seguleh accompanying Envy that the higher ranked one took notice.

Actually, since Karsa had beat the lady, anyone would have to go through her before they could face Karsa. Right?

[Abyss]

Skywalker;284113 said:

...since Karsa had beat the lady, anyone would have to go through her before they could face Karsa. Right?

In Seguleh terms maybe, but in Letherii terms Rhulad was First, and it was a Letherii ladder.

Maybe she just got fed up with the whole mess?

- Abyss, speculating...

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Briar King;284115 said:

That was very funny when they looked away, kinda like you aren't supposed to look a dog in the eyes if it is after you.

Reminds me of my gf's dog- just stared at me for ages the other day, so I stared right back into his eyes. Silence for a few minutes, then he started spazzing out and barking. Weird.

Anyways, back on topic-

We saw in MoI how the Seguleh are determined that Rake come and claim his place as 7th, and seeing as the woman Karsa beat will presumably go back to Morn, they'll know and demand he comes to take his place. And I cant see Karsa turning down a challenge.

I sense a Karsa vs Mok showdown of epic proportions...

[Skywalker]

Methinks she was just down with broken wings until Karsa went and faced Rhulad in the ring... I'm sure its some sort of Seguleh no no to interfere in a fight a higher rank is having, so she figured she'd get outta there...

And maybe she's gone back to Seguleh island to tell them about Karsa Orlong and how he needs challening? Will be fun to get a Karsa and Teblor vs Seguleh piece in TtH

EDIT: TT made the same point whilst I typed

[Aptorian]

You are presuming that she's a "real seguleh", you are also presuming that they feel some sort of need to return to their island. There could very well be a reason she was out travelling.

[Mentalist]

Well, despite the fact that eh Seguleh are hierarchcally-obsessed, I still expect them to have common sense.
If she judged Rhulad to be stronger then her, she may have purposely decided to avoid the fight.

or, (crazy theory):
The Seguleh may be familiar with Icarium and his rage, so she wisely decided to split before she got anhihilated along with a half the continent.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

@ Apt: She may well have been travelling, true, but I think it's more likely that, considering the Edur were travelling the world looking for challengers, they probably came across Morn, and the twelfth was sent to face Rhulad.

As the 2nd, 3rd and 7th were all absent (that we know of), and the 1st would be presumably unwilling to leave his kingdom for some challenger whose strength was ungauged, it seems probable that someone fairly high ranking like the 12th would have been sent to take up the gauntlet.

As the Mok and the other two were judged sufficient to deal with an entire empire, I dont think it's too much to conclude that the 12th was judged sufficient for this one-on-one battle.

My two jakatas.

[amphibian]

Briar King;284115 said:

That was very funny when they looked away, kinda like you aren't supposed to look a dog in the eyes if it is after you.

Yes and no. A dog that's aggressive may feel compelled to test who's stronger if you engage in a pissing content, but a dog that likes to attacks the weak may actually go after you if you show deference.

I've stared down a mean border collie to grab a tennis ball, only to have it jump at me and chase me off the property when I took my eyes off him to locate the ball.

Thelomen Toblerone;284134 said:

Reminds me of my gf's dog- just stared at me for ages the other day, so I stared right back into his eyes. Silence for a few minutes, then he started spazzing out and barking. Weird.

This was a dominance issue. There can only be one alpha in dog packs. Ideally, it should be your girlfriend, so you and the dog don't have to mix it up.

It seemed like Mok's brothers took on Tool because Mok didn't explicitly forbid them from doing so. I'm pretty sure that if he, like Karsa, told anyone who would listen that he'd destroy Tool/Rhulad, the lesser ranking Seguleh would have stood aside.

[Saccian]

She was starting her period and was embarassed, so she needed to get away...

[Blues]

Thelomen Toblerone;284152 said:

@ Apt: She may well have been travelling, true, but I think it's more likely that, considering the Edur were travelling the world looking for challengers, they probably came across Morn, and the twelfth was sent to face Rhulad.

As the 2nd, 3rd and 7th were all absent (that we know of), and the 1st would be presumably unwilling to leave his kingdom for some challenger whose strength was ungauged, it seems probable that someone fairly high ranking like the 12th would have been sent to take up the gauntlet.

As the Mok and the other two were judged sufficient to deal with an entire empire, I dont think it's too much to conclude that the 12th was judged sufficient for this one-on-one battle.

My two jakatas.

Theres most likely more than one 12th. Someone from MOI remarks that they expected the Seguleh punitive army to be made up of 300 or so 13th level initiates, and that the didnt expect the 3rd to show.

It would make more sense to have the lower (probably starting at the 10th) ranks occupied by more than one person. Otherwise you'd have a society that would have to keep track of 10,000 different ranks, or however large their army is.

For all we know, the 12th may not even be all that high of a rank. The 11th from MoI certainly had some skill, but he was only 14, so he may have been up and coming.

As for what the 12th is doing in Lether, another possibility is that she was sent on some kind of mission that had nothing to do with killing Rhulad, after all we know the K'Chain are present on that continent...

[Mentalist]

well, she's originally mentioned in tBH, as one of the challengers picked up by the Edur fleet....

Also. I still like mine "she was terrified of Icarium theory