[Pearls]

I'm casually rereading things and, naturally, some weirdness crossed my path while reading GotM. Now I'm pretty lazy, and I perused most of the Dragnipur-related threads, but I didn't actually see anyone getting all weirded out about how Paran "freed" the hounds of shadow. That is, by luring them into the gate under the wagon.

Now I know there's something else at play here. Events in later books (HoC) seem to indicate...a...something...about...statues and hounds of darker shadow and them being maybe connected. I still don't really fully appreciate that later scene, but whatever. My real question is, Draconus is just chillin' in there, and he's like, the King of Night, surely he'd have some idea about how those chains work if Oponn did. Why didn't he ever try to pass through the gate? Any ideas? Am I just "a dumb?" Do I need to git gud?

-Pearls

MODGOD NOTICE OF THREAD MOVE. DISCUSSION RELATED TO EVENTS IN LATER BOOKS SHOULD TAKE PLACE IN THE SUBFORUM FOR THE LATEST BOOK THE POSTER HAS READ, OR IN THE GENERAL TOPICS SUBFORUM. THIS HAS BEEN A MESSAGE FROM YOUR LOCAL MODGODS. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL MODGODS. SLEEP WITH YOUR DOOR UNLOCKED AND MAKE SUBDERMAL TRACKING CHIP IMPLANTS EASIER. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT. CARRY ON.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 30 April 2015 - 06:37 PM

[Nevyn]

Pearls, on 30 April 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

I'm casually rereading things and, naturally, some weirdness crossed my path while reading GotM. Now I'm pretty lazy, and I perused most of the Dragnipur-related threads, but I didn't actually see anyone getting all weirded out about how Paran "freed" the hounds of shadow. That is, by luring them into the gate under the wagon.

Now I know there's something else at play here. Events in later books (HoC) seem to indicate...a...something...about...statues and hounds of darker shadow and them being maybe connected. I still don't really fully appreciate that later scene, but whatever. My real question is, Draconus is just chillin' in there, and he's like, the King of Night, surely he'd have some idea about how those chains work if Oponn did. Why didn't he ever try to pass through the gate? Any ideas? Am I just "a dumb?" Do I need to git gud?

-Pearls

K seriously this should be in the general forum. I'll reply when its there.

MODGOD NOTICE OF DONE.
MWAHAHAHAHAHAheeeee....

This post has been edited by Abyss: 30 April 2015 - 06:38 PM

[Pearls]

I'm sorry. I think I made good on that being a dumb claim

[Nevyn]

Woohoo I can reply!


Anyway, first a quick factoid

Apsalar (the goddess in the sword, not the assassin) tries to follow the hounds through the gate and can't get close to it. So its not like anyone can go through and the others just haven't figured it out.

Whether the suzerain of night should be able to is an open question, but it seems like he either CAN'T or DIDN'T WANT TO (perhaps because he can't afford to stop helping with the flight). The conversation between Paran and Nightchill in MOI seems to imply that Paran appearing in the sword, and helping the hounds escape out the gate has given Draconus the ability to influence outside the sword somewhat.

[Abyss]

Don't forget that the two Hounds don't just emerge somewhere else. Their souls end up freed and are claimed by the Deragoth due to whatever ancient link was there. Since neither Drac nor anyone else chained up to the wagon had that sort of link, or if they did, thought to make the jump Had Draconus done it, either his soul might have been dispersed, or ended up a mere tool for someone else to trap and use.

[Pearls]

I probably should RAFO. I haven't gotten aroudn to FoD yet, and the title alone seems to excude some measure of...er...relevence. But this is Erikson, so I'm not holding my breath. The Deragoth kind of confuse me, since for some reason, I never really associated them with "Hounds of Darkness" in the same way, since they seemed to originate from Wu. The ones Karsa murders seem connected to the First Empire rather than the Tiste Andii, which is what I associate the Gate of Darkness with. I guess I'm not denying that the Hounds of Shadow aren't connected to the Deragoth, but I'm curious about the nature of the Deragoth relative to the realm of Darkness and not the First (Human?) Empire. That is, if we're going to use that as a justifcation for why they were able to use the Gate.

It's probably not *that* important, but it's an interesting wrinkle to me.

-Pearls

This post has been edited by Pearls: 01 May 2015 - 05:35 PM

[Nevyn]

Pearls, on 01 May 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

I probably should RAFO. I haven't gotten aroudn to FoD yet, and the title alone seems to excude some measure of...er...relevence. But this is Erikson, so I'm not holding my breath. The Deragoth kind of confuse me, since for some reason, I never really associated them with "Hounds of Darkness" in the same way, since they seemed to originate from Wu. The ones Karsa murders seem connected to the First Empire rather than the Tiste Andii, which is what I associate the Gate of Darkness with. I guess I'm not denying that the Hounds of Shadow aren't connected to the Deragoth, but I'm curious about the nature of the Deragoth relative to the realm of Darkness and not the First (Human?) Empire. That is, if we're going to use that as a justifcation for why they were able to use the Gate.

It's probably not *that* important, but it's an interesting wrinkle to me.

-Pearls

Forge of Darkness will give more information relating to these questions, but perhaps not give you an answer. I will leave it there as you haven't read it.

From the MBotF series though, the Deragoth are BOTH Hounds of Darkness and associated with the first empire. The common belief (I don't recall whether it gets confirmed) is that Dessimbelakis makes a deal with them (the Hounds of Darkness) someone to basically shelter his soul (he becomes a Diver's with the Deragoth as what he is veered into. Tulas Shorn also has some comments in TTH which imply that every warren/house/elemental aspect may have its own set of hounds.

As you say, clear as mud.

[worry]

They're living metaphors. And perhaps they fill a role, as opposed to being "elemental" (or some are and some aren't). I dunno. It's weird that animals can ascend in the first place, but it's also pretty cool. Also perhaps SE and ICE just really like Kate Bush and took it to extremes.