[QuickTidal]

Harper just gave a speech to the nation. Called it terrorism outright, linking it to the combat mission in Iraq against ISIS.

[Terez]

cerveza_fiesta, on 22 October 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

I also fervently hope that CBC closes the comments section for this story...some pretty insensitive and outlandish stuff getting said on there right now considering the severity of the situation and lack of information regarding the motivations of the shooter. One commenter actually was actually saying he/she wished the prime minister was shot! FFS....how much of a throbbing dickhead do you have to be to submit that kind of comment???

Welcome to America. Seriously, just for a random example, this was just posted on Facebook by my local news station:

https://www.facebook...154770412330615

See in particular Katherine Smith's comment, the number of likes, and the responses. Just another day in the great US of A.

[Andorion]

Seeing that photo of the woman giving mouth-to-mouth to the wounded soldier and then knowing that the soldier didn't make it ....brave attempt under fire, but so tragic

[Gothos]

Who would ever want to hurt Canada? Seriously?

Hope this all turns out OK without any further fatalities.

At least we know these folks were accurately marked as high risk travellers.

[Obdigore]

QuickTidal, on 23 October 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

Harper just gave a speech to the nation. Called it terrorism outright, linking it to the combat mission in Iraq against ISIS.

Ugh. Is this another 'politician commenting before knowing the facts' that we in the US are so used to, or are these people actually linked to ISIS/groups over there?

@People who retracted comments -> Its fine, I too thought that the vast majority of people at this site were better than how you read my comments, so fair enough. I could have been clearer and I apologize for that.

But I reserve the right to retract that apology (and apparently the statement) if Harper does push for an increase in Canadian Military Presence in the Middle East because of this.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Terez, on 23 October 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

cerveza_fiesta, on 22 October 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

I also fervently hope that CBC closes the comments section for this story...some pretty insensitive and outlandish stuff getting said on there right now considering the severity of the situation and lack of information regarding the motivations of the shooter. One commenter actually was actually saying he/she wished the prime minister was shot! FFS....how much of a throbbing dickhead do you have to be to submit that kind of comment???

Welcome to America. Seriously, just for a random example, this was just posted on Facebook by my local news station:

https://www.facebook...154770412330615

See in particular Katherine Smith's comment, the number of likes, and the responses. Just another day in the great US of A.

I know....it's something about politics that really gets the hate going. I mean, another random attack on a soldier in Quebec a few days prior drew near 99% comments of support and condolences for the soldiers involved and their families. All of a sudden politicians are involved and people are wishing the gunman had tried a little harder??? Fuckin hell.....

It's a rant for another day, but my god I wish sites like CBC would close their comment sections permanently

Not much in terms of new news today. Lots of interviews with MPs that were locked down in the building all day, accounts from witnesses of the shooting(s), replays of official gov't statements, recycled sound bites, the usual stuff.


@Gothos,


Yeah, good to know these folks wouldnt' be travelling abroad (or even domestically by air) without somebody noticing. It didn't help much yesterday, but what the hell can you do to prevent a lone gunman rampage in the end? It's random, it's unexpected nearly every time, and there is no such thing as prosecuting a pre-crime, so I guess the only solution is heightened security.

I'm not sure what to think of that solution exactly. It seems inevitable at this point, but Canada isn't traditionally a high-security type of place. Even at parliament they've made a point of keeping security extremely low-key to protect the very things it symbolizes for a democratic and free society. I'd hate to see machine gun-toting solidiers and a sniper on every vantage point (a la Washington DC capital building), but it'd be nice to know somebody is watching out for this type of event in the future.

[Gothos]

Well, I'd take the lead from Norway and how they didn't turn into a police state after... that bombing shooting guy, whatshisface... Well, I hope you folks don't change. Canadia looks like a fine place to move sometime in the future.

[Blend]

Vengeance, on 23 October 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

Blend are you still stuck in your office?

I was allowed to leave around 4pm.

[QuickTidal]

Obdigore, on 23 October 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 23 October 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

Harper just gave a speech to the nation. Called it terrorism outright, linking it to the combat mission in Iraq against ISIS.

Ugh. Is this another 'politician commenting before knowing the facts' that we in the US are so used to, or are these people actually linked to ISIS/groups over there?

Yes and no. Both the guy who killed the warrant officer in Quebec on Monday with a car (subsequently shot by police), and the guy who shot up Ottawa yesterday were Muslims (converted apparently) who have links to ISIS in one way or the other, the least of which was having their passports seized so they wouldn't go overseas meaning that CSIS (our CIA) had them on a list as possibilities for terror. This combined with recently revealed erratic behaviour by yesterday's gunman where he lived in Quebec (including being kicked out of his own mosque for really "strange behaviour"). The only known image of yesterday's shooter was actually tweeted from an ISIS-linked twitter account. All signs point to this guy being at least tentatively linked to ISIS.

That COULD be speculation, or profiling...but I have doubts that Harper would have said "terrorist" if he wasn't at least somewhat sure of the links from those under him who investigate such things.

It could go either way.

[QuickTidal]

Shit. This image just hit me like a ton of bricks.

RIP Nathan Cirillo.

 B0ofWx-IcAEk49O.jpg (46.48K)
Number of downloads: 2

[Cause]

QuickTidal, on 23 October 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

Obdigore, on 23 October 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 23 October 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

Harper just gave a speech to the nation. Called it terrorism outright, linking it to the combat mission in Iraq against ISIS.

Ugh. Is this another 'politician commenting before knowing the facts' that we in the US are so used to, or are these people actually linked to ISIS/groups over there?

Yes and no. Both the guy who killed the warrant officer in Quebec on Monday with a car (subsequently shot by police), and the guy who shot up Ottawa yesterday were Muslims (converted apparently) who have links to ISIS in one way or the other, the least of which was having their passports seized so they wouldn't go overseas meaning that CSIS (our CIA) had them on a list as possibilities for terror. This combined with recently revealed erratic behaviour by yesterday's gunman where he lived in Quebec (including being kicked out of his own mosque for really "strange behaviour"). The only known image of yesterday's shooter was actually tweeted from an ISIS-linked twitter account. All signs point to this guy being at least tentatively linked to ISIS.

That COULD be speculation, or profiling...but I have doubts that Harper would have said "terrorist" if he wasn't at least somewhat sure of the links from those under him who investigate such things.

It could go either way.

puts the thread about revoking citizenship etc in a new perspective.

[D'rek]

Cause, on 23 October 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

puts the thread about revoking citizenship etc in a new perspective.

How so?

[QuickTidal]

And now a guy with a rifle, reportedly has been arrested near the Cenotaph in downtown Halifax.

At first it sounded like an unrelated incident, but the fact that the guy was near the Cenotaph kind of freaks me out.

[cerveza_fiesta]

QuickTidal, on 23 October 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

Shit. This image just hit me like a ton of bricks.

RIP Nathan Cirillo.

B0ofWx-IcAEk49O.jpg

Yeah, dude was a single father with his son in Kindergarten. That was a hard thing to hear on the radio this morning. I hope to god the press has the decency to leave the family alone for a bit.

EDIT

Should point out that they seem to have been leaving the family alone and are being respectful thus far.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 23 October 2014 - 02:56 PM

[cerveza_fiesta]

D, on 23 October 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Cause, on 23 October 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

puts the thread about revoking citizenship etc in a new perspective.

How so?

I think he probably means that it confirms what many were saying. Revoking citizenship/passports doesn't necessarily solve anything or prevent violence.

It does give me a new angle I'd not thought of before. Revoking that passport does at least mean that he won't hurt anyone in some other country. Maybe we should take responsibility for Canadian-grown terrorists. Keep them here at least and ensure that the rest of the world is protected.

kind of the opposite of terrorism NIMBY if you want to think about it that way.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 23 October 2014 - 02:55 PM

[D'rek]

cerveza_fiesta, on 23 October 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

D, on 23 October 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Cause, on 23 October 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

puts the thread about revoking citizenship etc in a new perspective.

How so?

I think he probably means that it confirms what many were saying. Revoking citizenship/passports doesn't necessarily solve anything or prevent violence.

It does give me a new angle I'd not thought of before. Revoking that passport does at least mean that he won't hurt anyone in some other country. Maybe we should take responsibility for Canadian-grown terrorists. Keep them here at least and ensure that the rest of the world is protected.

kind of the opposite of terrorism NIMBY if you want to think about it that way.

I'm not sure I see the relevance here. This was a man with Canadian citizenship, born and raised in Canada, committing a crime in Canada. How is he any different than any other past Canadian criminal who has shot and killed other Canadians? His motives may have been based on different ideologies but his actions are the same.

And if you take away someone like that's citizenship, then what? You forcibly deport them to Antarctica because they are no longer a member of any country on Earth?

I don't think revoking this man's citizenship was a plausible idea, either with hindsight or without.

Preventing him from travelling is a totally different issue than revoking citizenship, though. It sounds like he was already flagged as a high risk traveller, so the system seems to have been working correctly in that regard, anyway.

[cerveza_fiesta]

D, on 23 October 2014 - 03:15 PM, said:

cerveza_fiesta, on 23 October 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

D, on 23 October 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Cause, on 23 October 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

puts the thread about revoking citizenship etc in a new perspective.

How so?

I think he probably means that it confirms what many were saying. Revoking citizenship/passports doesn't necessarily solve anything or prevent violence.

It does give me a new angle I'd not thought of before. Revoking that passport does at least mean that he won't hurt anyone in some other country. Maybe we should take responsibility for Canadian-grown terrorists. Keep them here at least and ensure that the rest of the world is protected.

kind of the opposite of terrorism NIMBY if you want to think about it that way.

I'm not sure I see the relevance here. This was a man with Canadian citizenship, born and raised in Canada, committing a crime in Canada. How is he any different than any other past Canadian criminal who has shot and killed other Canadians? His motives may have been based on different ideologies but his actions are the same.

And if you take away someone like that's citizenship, then what? You forcibly deport them to Antarctica because they are no longer a member of any country on Earth?

I don't think revoking this man's citizenship was a plausible idea, either with hindsight or without.

Preventing him from travelling is a totally different issue than revoking citizenship, though. It sounds like he was already flagged as a high risk traveller, so the system seems to have been working correctly in that regard, anyway.

I agree with you. Revoking citizenship doesn't do anything in this case. Revoking the passport makes it harder for him to leave Canada. Invoking a no fly status limits his movement within Canada.

In the IS thread the discussion was around whether it was helpful to revoke passports/citizenship for domestic terrorists fighting abroad. This is a different kettle of fish and as you say, not totally relevant in the other thread's context.

[Cause]

I meant nothing by my comment except that it seems the issue of Islamic extremism spreading through out the world is one that perhaps deserves more attention. I never took the idea seriously, that Muslims (especially converts) from Canada of all places could be a threat or have ties to ISIS. So my comment was not in support of revoking citizenship rather it was in support of the idea that such discussions need to take place. One incident, even two that are linked are in the grand scheme of the world insignificant perhaps but also perhaps presaging something far larger.

How did this form of extremism make its way to Canada, what was the allure for a person to first convert to Islam and than embrace this bastardization of it.

[A Demon Llama!]

I have a good friend in the Reserve and apparently the soldier that was killed was his friend. Gonna text him.

[Gnaw]

Cause, on 23 October 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

How did this form of extremism make its way to Canada, what was the allure for a person to first convert to Islam and than embrace this bastardization of it.

I'm very fond of quotes. Why say something when somebody else has already said it better than I ever could.

Anne Lamott said:

You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.