[Slum]

Obdigore: I was judging this as a series. My previous comments stand. It is good, not great. It is a solid 6 out of 10. It was fun, dark, and humorous. More humorous than many series before it. It was also fundamentally flawed - the discerning reader sees the twist coming, and he/she, mostly, as far I can tell, doesn't care. A work of supposed greatness should make me feel something. This trilogy didn't. It made me feel glad it was over with.

If you can honestly tell me you had the same gut-punch reaction to the end LAOK as you did to the resolution of the Chain of Dogs, or the shock of The Red Wedding, well, I'd tell you to get your eyes fixed. Cuz we ain't been reading the same things.

[Grief]

Obdigore, on Aug 10 2009, 07:48 PM, said:

Grief, on Aug 10 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

Slumgullion Spitteler, on Aug 10 2009, 06:02 PM, said:

I don't know what it is about Abercrombie, but I just don't share the love. Sure, the First Law trilogy was fun, and I've read worse; but, it's not that great. Abercrombie is a good writer, but his prose is still a ways off from noteworthy.

I guess he improved a lot by the end of Last Argument of Kings, but I still wasn't convinced. First off, I didn't really care about Jezal. Not a whit. And I could not care less about Bayaz and his obvious scheming. And those were the characters on which the book depended. On which the story pivoted.

I liked Ninefingers and the Northmen. Occasionally I liked Glotka's take on things, and I liked his ending.

Still, I would not dare rank this alongside the better fantasy works of our generation. It's just not that good. Serviceable, fun, off-the-cuff and humorous? Yes. It's all that. It's not, however, some groundbreaking example of how fantasy should be done.

I really agree with Slum here.

I found the plot to be, to be honest, rather dull. The twists I felt were predictable, and I didn't care for the vast majority of the characters. Bayaz in particular I felt was predictable and obvious, and like Slum I didn't care about Jezal at all. Aswell as this I found it to be almost cliched, particularly towards the end, and particularly Bayaz. I didn't feel any real sense of mystery or suspense, and finished the books because someone bought m the first two and I dislike leaving a series unfinished.

I really don't get all the praise he gets, I've read worse certainly, but he really doesn't rank with people like Erikson or Rothfuss at all in my mind.

Not books I would re-read, probably only around 4 to 6 out of 10 in my opinion.

Wasn't GOTM an odd book? It certainly didn't rate as higher than a 5 in most lists.
How bout the terrible Fionovar Tapestry? I to this day have been unable to complete that since in the first book one of them has to die like Jesus.
Was Rand an amazing and always likeable character? Or the Tug Braid Coalition? Or Cutter or Nimander?

The fact is you guys are judging the first work of a new author based on the best collected works of fantasy, and then say it fails to compete. Of course it does. The first Runelord book should rate a 5. It was an ok book, and much better than most of the trash out there.

And really, Rothfuss? One good book then unable to produce a second one? Or Scott Lynch? A good book, then a mediocre one, and unable to complete the trilogy?

Lets take a step back here guys, and realize that being gorged on the best fantasy has to offer dosen't mean you should raise your standard so high no author can compete.

The First Law Trilogy was a fun, dark, and somewhat twisted piece of work. It makes no asperations to be high fantasy, and fulfils avoiding those asperations. Fun, short-ish reads with memorable, even if you don't like them, characters.

Spoiler

I didn't expect C. West to die. I didn't expect Glokta to live past helping Bayaz get Glokta on the throne. I certianly didn't expect Glokta and Ardee to marry.

I would guess you didn't either, until it was right there and happening in the books. And then you look back, and fool yourself into realizing you should have seen it.

Did you really expect

Spoiler

the seed to be not there? Or for Shivers to refuse to help betray Ninefingers? Or for Glokta to end up being the true decision maker in the kingdom?

You are fooling yourself if you say yes.

Think you're being a bit harsh on Rothfuss there-he did have a good reason. Also, he hasn't taken that long on the book-and judging on quality I certainly think his one book better than any one I've read of Abercrombies.

GotM-I didn't find it that odd to be honest. But then, I hadn't read that much fantasy before, so didn't have many expectations etc.

I don't feel I have raised my standards too high-I just feel that Abercrombie does fall short, I frankly didn't enjoy the books. Obviously I can't claim that I predicted every single plot point, but a lot of the time I did. It's not even something that annoys me in most books much. It's hard to describe why I don't like them. I dunno, I feel he was trying to go against the readers expectations but often did it in a way that wasn't subtle and so led to easier predictability.

It also didn't strike me as very dark-though this probably came from not really caring about his characters.

I think it has possibly to do a lot with the amount of praise he got tbh. It wasn't a bad book, but I think that because I had high expectations going in with everyone calling it brilliant led me to dislike it when, for me, it was quite far from it.

[High Marshal Flit]

You know I also bought the 3 books based on all the chatter and wasn't overly impressed. They were decent reading, nothing groundbreaking, above average. There were parts of each book that were really well done. The fight scenes with the Practicals at the end of book 1, the siege with GLokta, and the battle scenes in the north in book 3. But I guess my major issue was with his character portrayals, all around. It's like he put his 4 main characters, and all of his lesser ones for that matter, on a board with a line down the middle and said I'm going to make each person have the same amount of good/evil, right/wrong characteristics. While in a way I appreciated what he was trying to do by exploring the dichotomies of these traits, by showing that's it very hard to classify someone on either side. It's just that it got to the point where he over did it, and every character became similar. If nobody is good or bad, but a hermaphrodite, then we're reading it for the action, which there wasn't very much of, or at least maybe I'm reading for the writing, which wasn't very singular, I mean he doesn't have much of a personal style that would allow me to overlook some of the other flaws. They weren't bad at all, and I'll still read what he puts out next, but he has a ways to go to 1) deserve some of the accolades he's received by critics and readers 2) develop into an author whose Fantasy books will be able to ride out the first 2 or 3 years before being banished into bottom shelf oblivion. But I think, and I sincerely hope, and I'll support him because he does have the potential to be a long term player.

[Abyss]

BEST SERVED COLD.

Anyone read? Any good?


- Abyss, considering.

[Obdigore]

Abyss, on Aug 28 2009, 12:38 PM, said:

BEST SERVED COLD.

Anyone read? Any good?


- Abyss, considering.

Take the First Law Trilogy.

Condense it down into 1 book.

No glokta, but you have a northman, a former mercenary general, another former mercenary general, and a master and apprentice poisoner.

Ending is less dark, almost more humerous.

I enjoyed it, but it certainly isn't any kind of fantasy epic or anything. I guess if you liked the First Law stuff, you would like this.

[Ninefingers]

... and a fella who likes to count a lot.

I've still got about 100 pages or so to go. So far, I'm not enjoying it as much as the First Law, but it's still pretty good.

[polishgenius]

Best Served Cold read to me like Ocean's Eleven Kill Bill with Abercrombie's typical humour style...

[Tarcanus]

I just finished Before They Are Hanged.

I can see where Abercrombie is hailed as being great at characterization, as that is where these books are starting to shine brighter, but somethings still lacking for me. It seemed like the plots went no where in this volume. Though I'm sure there'll be some payoff for Jezal and co. quest, I couldn't help but be let down by that entire arc. I'm also not quite seeing where the Glokta and 9fingers love comes from. I find Dogman and co., along with West much better developed than either of the other two. Glokta is such a weak character because of what happened to him(physically weak, mind you) that I'm tired of there always being the tough Practicals around to save his ass - it's just starting to feel contrived and if the presentiment I'm having about his plot is correct, I think I'll like it even less.

Here's hoping Last Argument puts me in my place and blows me away.