[Gwynn ap Nudd]

She was alive from near the end of midnight tides.

[Bombjack]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

It seems to me the dogfight may fit as an allegory of the Genabackan campaign? In this interpretation, the foreign woman represents Laseen and her dog, Onearm's Host. The other dog is then Brood's army (or perhaps more properly, the native opposition to the Malazan army, which might be considered to include the Pannion Domin too), but I cannot for now think of who its affable and disinterested owner (who does not love or leash his dog) might represent.

The dogs fight and eventually the foreign one is killed (an admittedly imperfect analogy of the campaign's result, but close enough for me), but through her actions its owner refuses to recognise that it is dead and instead leashes it to her once more.

Assuming I'm anywhere near the right track, this still leaves a few questions, most notable that of who 'owns' the Genabackan forces? Also, if the shabby town is Genabackis, who were the garrison of three soldiers who departed long ago?

[Aptorian]

While I'm able to see your logic, we've not seen that level of depth in Eriksons stories so far.

It's unlikely.

[Dancer+]

Apt, you should say type of depth rather than level of depth. The stories are depthy in other instances, I just don't think the allegory is present in this situation although we can always try to mould it to our cause.

[Aptorian]

I don't see the difference in your distinction, Dancer. What I mean was that while Erikson certainly has deeper leves of philisophical meaning he hasn't been challeging our normal level littetural understanding so far... in the way he's implying.

[Dancer+]

Exactly in a way. I was just addressing some ambiguity, it depends whether you were being specific to a type of depth or generalised depth. It could be read as: Erikson's stories haven't achieved that level of depth at all rather than in the specialised context you were referring to. The distinction seems moot, especially explaining it but I thought you were alluding to the generalised depth comment which I disagreed with.

[Cold Iron]

Nice to see an aussie and a kiwi band in that list

[Adjutant Stormy~]

ZOMG STEVE AND I HAVE THE SAME TASTE IN MUSIX

WE ARE LIKE SOULMATEZ!

(Like anyone would badmouth his musical tastes on this forum, he's practically our own private saint)

I do dig Roger and the rest of Floyd, h and the b-fish, neil young, dylan, and heck sinatra even.

[Blend]

Aptorian;290949 said:

While I'm able to see your logic, we've not seen that level of depth in Eriksons stories so far.

It's unlikely.

Despite that, I think he's probably very close.... I mean, SE himself said that we had to read deeper into that scene, to see the meaning behind the obvious. I was thinking something along the exact same lines, myself... Except I was trying to apply it to the Bonehunters and the Letherii Empire.... Though it would definitely make more sense for it to be Genabackis and Laseen... I figure the owner who is disinterested and does not love his dog may / could represent Rake - seeing as he helping to protect Genabackan cities for his own reasons, which are as of yet, mostly unclear beyond that he wants to stop Laseen - or even just the Panion Seer who used his people to maul the Malazan army...

[Malaclypse]

Blend;294385 said:

Despite that, I think he's probably very close.... I mean, SE himself said that we had to read deeper into that scene, to see the meaning behind the obvious. I was thinking something along the exact same lines, myself... Except I was trying to apply it to the Bonehunters and the Letherii Empire.... Though it would definitely make more sense for it to be Genabackis and Laseen... I figure the owner who is disinterested and does not love his dog may / could represent Rake - seeing as he helping to protect Genabackan cities for his own reasons, which are as of yet, mostly unclear beyond that he wants to stop Laseen - or even just the Panion Seer who used his people to maul the Malazan army...

you need to get some sleep. Pronto.

[Blend]

Malaclypse;294410 said:

you need to get some sleep. Pronto.

Why do you say that?

[amphibian]

Blend;294599 said:

Why do you say that?

Because this

Quote

Despite that, I think he's probably very close.... I mean, SE himself said that we had to read deeper into that scene, to see the meaning behind the obvious. I was thinking something along the exact same lines, myself... Except I was trying to apply it to the Bonehunters and the Letherii Empire.... Though it would definitely make more sense for it to be Genabackis and Laseen... I figure the owner who is disinterested and does not love his dog may / could represent Rake - seeing as he helping to protect Genabackan cities for his own reasons, which are as of yet, mostly unclear beyond that he wants to stop Laseen - or even just the Panion Seer who used his people to maul the Malazan army...

does not make sense as two sentences. I had to read that twice and go back to find the posts that led to this to make heads or tails of it.

I'm of the opinion that the dogs aren't allegories for anything we know about yet, unless it's really meta. That would be somewhat of a departure from the norms for Erikson.

[Obie's Cure]

Ultravox/ Midge Ure's "Dancing with tears in my eyes" is appallingly appropriate. Apocalypse, especially apropos, the measure to which the sum, or value, of life is balanced.

Furthermore, the abandonment of hope and the poignant desolation of spirit that pervasively infuses the novels resonates throughout the song. A telling comment, that we abandon all things that aren't part of our identity at the last.
Whether despair in failure, hope/fear for others, or regret for inadequacy, it is then that we are truly self-aware.

Just a thought...

[Kalahinen]

amphibian;294603 said:

Because this does not make sense as two sentences. I had to read that twice and go back to find the posts that led to this to make heads or tails of it.

I'm of the opinion that the dogs aren't allegories for anything we know about yet, unless it's really meta. That would be somewhat of a departure from the norms for Erikson.

Maybe Erikson is nowadays friends with David Lynch...


BTW Ultravox and Midge Ure are great!

[Silander]

there are people who don't like Sinatra? Truly the world is full of wonders.

[serenfan]

I'm fairly new to the forum, so please forgive any etiquette breaches. Just re-read the prolouge-the two girls are Karsa's daughters right? From the village where he took the mother and daughter after using the blood oil in HoC?

[Aptorian]

There's some confusion about the issue but yes, they should be his daughters.

Take a look in this thread I made when the prologue arrived:

http://malazanworld....read.php?t=9634

[SSOCB]

I'm feeling rather sheepish now for not having noticed the timeline issues at all. I read the books in a rather bizar sequince intially (2 1 4 3) so I never got in the habit of looking at the dates. I have to admit that I don't think I'll be losing any sleep over the discrepancies though. The books are fiction after all. The stories don't have to be perfectly timed and compleetly explaned ne?

On the issue of the fighting dogs: The owners and the dogs might be simbolic of the gods attitude to their "worshippers" and the worshipers attitude to the gods. The dogs fight and the owners dont care. The gods rarely care much for their worshippers or what they get up to.The dogs dont really care about their owners opinions about the fight either. That the man gives the dog that he has no use for to the woman, even though the dog won, is especially significant in my opinion. Is this not exactly what some of the gods would do with their tools/worshippers?

This interpretation does not make much sense of the rest of the segment, but it was the first thing that occured to me.

[Cougar]

There are 2 camps; those who give a shit about the timeline and those who don't:from what we know SE fallls into the later.

[Optimus Prime]

Even though he doesn't seem to care, I wonder if he'll end up going back and fixing these issues after all is said and done. Like when a batch of new editions of each book is released. Doesn't bother me really.