[Raraku]

dont forget Trake he also had to die to acsend even though he was the lord of battle and then the 2 wolf gods came along

[Abyss]

kud13;242431 said:

heh.. just to remind you all: Baudin also passed through the inimical warren...

So did Truth, but that didn't work out so hot for either of them (pun intended). Gesler, Stormy and anyone else who passed through Kurald Thyrrlan on the Silanda didn't even have the same effects as each other - Kulp, Baudin and Felisin all, for particular reasons to each of them, didn't get the copper skin no hunger or sleep effect the Marines did.

Remember, there are different WAYS to ascension, there are different DEGREES of ascension, there are different KINDS of ascendents AND gods and no hard and fast rule applies to any of it.

Kel and Dancer faked their own deaths and used the Azath to enter Meanas and seize the Throne of Shadow. This gave them godhood, command of shadowstuff, command of the Hounds, some control over the shadow-associated demons, immortality, links to followers, etc... Strictly speaking, it doesn't say anywhere that they got 'control' of Meanas, Rashan or any other stray chunks of KE wandering around in any absolute sense. We even see with Panek in DG that there are things in Meanas even Dancer wasn't aware of.

Trake became a god by dying for real; he 'recruited' his Legion; and his warren, be it Tennes or otherwise, has been described as 'weak', unlike Fener's whose was apprently powerful, tho not enough to save him from Heboric's Jade/Otataral influence. And while he was initially identified as the new god of war, he seems to have been 'demoted' following Togg/Fenderbait's return and takeover.

- Abyss, notes there is no hard and fast rule to ascension, repeat,
there is no hard and fast rule to ascension,
there is no hard and fast rule to ascension,
there is no hard and fast rule to ascension...

[Sinisdar Toste]

hm, why do i get the feeling i've heard that before?

[Kurt Montandon]

Abyss;242778 said:

So did Truth, but that didn't work out so hot for either of them (pun intended). Gesler, Stormy and anyone else who passed through Kurald Thyrrlan on the Silanda didn't even have the same effects as each other - Kulp, Baudin and Felisin all, for particular reasons to each of them, didn't get the copper skin no hunger or sleep effect the Marines did.

On that note, I'll point out the inconsistency that Stormy was able to get quite drunk in BH, even though in HoC Gesler says that he and Stormy could no longer get drunk.

You may now carry on with a conversation that's actually relevant. Or not, as is usually the case.

Edit: And I wonder if Gesler, Stormy, and Truth got their effects through being sworn to a god - that's the only thing that separates them from the others. Not that I think Fener had anything to do with it directly, but perhaps they were simply a bit closer to the Ascendants to start with ... and Heboric was unefected due to his tie to a completely different, alien power. Of course, Baudin actually thought he was changed by his passage through that warren (he felt "heavier"), but it didn't seem to have any benefits.

[Abyss]

kmmontandon;242873 said:

On that note, I'll point out the inconsistency that Stormy was able to get quite drunk in BH, even though in HoC Gesler says that he and Stormy could no longer get drunk...

Reread that scene and ask yourself whether Stormy really IS drunk, or just his usual pissed off cantakerous self, possibly moreso now that he cannot get drunk.

But on point, that's another example of the effects of warrens/ascenscion being varied. Shadowthrone's turning into, forgive, a shadow of his former self, but Cotillion doesn't seem to experience the same effect.

- Abyss, would be positively pissed on the no-drunk thing...

[Mentalist]

hmmm.. I thought Baudin DID get the copper-skin.... this requires a re-read..

re: Stromy being special--he also got force-healed by Heboric's magic hands, and something from the hands "jumped" into Stromy... which was why Legana Breed chose him to hold on to the sword...

[Kurt Montandon]

Abyss;242895 said:

Reread that scene and ask yourself whether Stormy really IS drunk, or just his usual pissed off cantakerous self, possibly moreso now that he cannot get drunk.

The scene reads as though Stormy is really supposed to be drunk.

[Abyss]

kmmontandon;242907 said:

The scene reads as though Stormy is really supposed to be drunk.

Or perhaps he is just THAT devilishly clever and chameleonlike in his devlish cleverousity!!!

- Abyss, trusts in SE, SE is good, SE is great...

[Zorland]

Re: Baudin, Felisin, Stormy, Gesler, etc.

I have a theory for why some of the characters were affected and others weren't. (I don't have my book on me so I'm working from memory). As I recall, 1) Baudin tried to shield Felisin from the fires that were raining down and 2) Felisin, Baudin and Heboric fell off the boat while Stormy et all remained on it.

So perhaps this would explain why Felisin was unaffected and Baudin did not have a similar effect to Stormy, Gesler, and Truth.

Also, it does not seem that this passage granted them immunity to fire. Baudin burns himself to death to kill the rat divers (Ghryllen?) and says something like "I thought I would be immune." Truth also, presumably, dies by fire.

[Zanth13]

Zorland;242980 said:

Re: Baudin, Felisin, Stormy, Gesler, etc.

I have a theory for why some of the characters were affected and others weren't. (I don't have my book on me so I'm working from memory). As I recall, 1) Baudin tried to shield Felisin from the fires that were raining down and 2) Felisin, Baudin and Heboric fell off the boat while Stormy et all remained on it.

So perhaps this would explain why Felisin was unaffected and Baudin did not have a similar effect to Stormy, Gesler, and Truth.

Also, it does not seem that this passage granted them immunity to fire. Baudin burns himself to death to kill the rat divers (Ghryllen?) and says something like "I thought I would be immune." Truth also, presumably, dies by fire.

I Thought Truth died from an exposion, but was actually unaffected by the flames... No way for me to do a reread can someone check for sure??

ill give rep for a quote

[Aptorian]

I agree, I think Baudin was as "close to ascension" as Gesler and the others were. It's just not very healthy to pour burning oil on yourself.

As for Stormy being able to get drunk, if he in fact was drunk, as opposed to HoC. Stormy wasn't just drinking wine. He was drinking rum and all kinds of other stuff. Now while an ascendant is possibly safe from the toxicity of alcohol when drinking a bottle, a barrel of wine might do the trick, no?

[Lister of Smeg]

Fiddler (I think) says Truth got further into the flames than anyone else could have in BH, so I'd say he was unaffected by the fire. It was the munitions that did for him.

Also, I agree with the point about Felisin, Kulp and Heboric not being affected because they fell off the boat. Baudin was slightly affected, though obviously not as much so as the soldiers, IIRC, possibly due to his protection of Felisin?

[Aptorian]

I don't think the falling off the boat thing was the cause. It's been a while since I read that scene. But as I remember, Kulp and Heboric were inside, Felisin was thrown inside the boat by Baudin before he ran off to help the marines.

When the ship was washed over by the flames Baudina nd the marines were outside and the ship portected the others from the worst of the ordeal.

[Lister of Smeg]

They were all on the deck. Hence how Baudin was able to grab Felisin and fall overboard, with Heboric and Kulp following.

[Abyss]

Correct - there's even a comment as Felisin and co drop that they hear the marines screaming as they bail out.


- Abyss, likes skydiving...

[Mcflury]

hm, if I remember right Baudin actually threw himself upon Heboric and Felisin (maybe Kulp too, but covering 3 bodies with 1 body seems prety hard) and thus took all the flames...
Also, small side question: are we absolutely sure Kulp is dead or did he return somewhere later in the series or can he still come back (without a reincarnation then off course)?

[Kurt Montandon]

Mcflury;243155 said:

Also, small side question: are we absolutely sure Kulp is dead or did he return somewhere later in the series or can he still come back (without a reincarnation then off course)?

He was reduced to gnawed bones by rats, so I'm pretty sure he's dead.

[Mcflury]

kulp gnawed by rats? Darned, I thought that was Baudin .... so what happened with Baudin then?

[thesalus]

Quote

He swung the lanterns, shattering them. Fire leapt around him. A moment later he and hundreds of rats were engulfed in flames.
...
Baudin would not fall. He killed rat after rat, all within a shroud of flame, yet they surged over him in ever-growing numbers, the sheer mass of bodies smothering the burning oil.
...
Baudin was burned, gnawed, parts completely eaten away. He had been charred down to the bone in places, and the heat had swelled the gases in his belly, bloating him until he looked with child, the skin and flesh cracked open. There was nothing left of his features except ragged holes where his eyes, nose and mouth should have been. Yet Felisin knew it was him.
He staggered another step closer, then slowly sank down to the ground

He suffered the same fate. But... he put the grillin' in the Gryllen.

Quote

Yes, that's the D'ivers's name. Gryllen, otherwise known as the Tide of Madness. Flushed out of Y'ghatan in the fire.

[Abyss]

A small Kulp related aside - somewhere there's a ref to Kulp the Elder

- Abyss, the cuter.