[Zanth13]

creffett;239876 said:

Zanth, how can you make a "physical prowess" list without Karsa? Or a "magic" list without Raest?

well you make a list, and then dont put them in it, it was pretty easy actually

There has been enough speculation about Karsa didnt want this to be another Karsa sucks or Karsa is uber cool discussion(read: I forgot)

but i added him anyway just now ...

Raest is the same thing it opens a can of worms, bout GOTMism and what not...I did mention him though under the list, if you read that far

tis was a quick list, just adding more depth to what the original person posted, like he asked....it is a work in progess,

any more outburst of outrage, maketh your own list,
But I will listen to them...:cool:

In my opinion the most powerful Characters right now in the books are the Kings of the houses, (not counting Mother Dark)
The CG as King of Highhouse Chains
Hood as King of High House Death
Shadowthrone as King of High House Shadow

they are king for a reason

[Cain]

Zanth13;239884 said:

well you make a list, and then dont put them in it, it was pretty easy actually

There has been enough speculation about Karsa didnt want this to be another Karsa sucks or Karsa is uber cool discussion(read: I forgot)

but i added him anyway just now ...

Raest is the same thing it opens a can of worms, bout GOTMism and what not...I did mention him though under the list, if you read that far

tis was a quick list, just adding more depth to what the original person posted, like he asked....it is a work in progess,

any more outburst of outrage, maketh your own list,
But I will listen to them...:cool:

In my opinion the most powerful Characters right now in the books are the Kings of the houses, (not counting Mother Dark)
The CG as King of Highhouse Chains
Hood as King of High House Death
Shadowthrone as King of High House Shadow

they are king for a reason

Oh yeah? If hood is so powerful how did Quick-Ben have him by the scruff of his neck, or Shadowthrone being in complete awe of Apsalar's handi-work at the end of BH. Heh.

[Aptorian]

You're being silly.

Quick Ben used a weakness to grab the god. You can bet your ass if Quick had pulled Hood through, Hood would have sent Quick through Deaths Gate moments after.

And there's nothing special in agod being impressed with a mortals skill. we see this several times through the series. It's how the gods pick their new players for the positions in the houses.

[Zanth13]

Cain;239888 said:

Oh yeah? If hood is so powerful how did Quick-Ben have him by the scruff of his neck, or Shadowthrone being in complete awe of Apsalar's handi-work at the end of BH. Heh.

What Apt said...

plus one thing that has been shown to us by SE in this series is that no one is untouchable, given the right circumstances or even preperation every one is vunerable (see: Erant and Feather Witch). You can be a 100x stronger then someone but because of bad luck/ circumstances you get owned. (such as we see with several dragons in RG)

You cant count on your own prowess/strength/magic all the time (See Dassem Ultor)

That being said QB getting the upperhand on Hood for one circumstance doesnt make him stronger, Hood could have just as easily killed him on the spot if it suited his purpose... that was more of a contest of wills/plans any way, had nothing to do with powerlevels.

ill stand by my opinion the the Kings are the strongest for the most part.

[Battalion]

I have to agree with Zanth. Shadowthrone am the man.

[Veilside]

Battalion;239941 said:

I have to agree with Zanth. Shadowthrone am the man.

I don't see ST standing up to some of the other ascendants.

[Deuce]

Zanth13;239752 said:

Top Ten
physical prowess (ie fighting)

1. Dassem Ultor
2. Segulah 1-3
3. Rake
4. Brood
5. Cottillion
EDIT: Karsa
6. Apsalar
7. Top Avowed
8. Kalam
9. Kallor

Nice list first off. The only thing I can say on it is we don't know much when comparing these guys except I feel the last few. Kallor shows in his actions that he is not a match for Rake or Brood and Kalam openly admits he is not of Cot's skill. Apsalar seems to have gotten stronger but on the island there was no mistaking that Cot was higher in skill so I would have those three at the bottom like you have.

The rest though are like 1a, 1b and so forth. Daseem was able to deal with the Avowed (not without difficulty) except Skinner was able to stand against him. Not a large amount of detail was given on this fight I believe but this speaks of his ability. Especially since any of the Avowed like in Midnight Tides speak of Skinner in awe as does the Crippled God and of course we know the Seguleuh 2nd has some sort of issue as well.

Rake yes we know made it to be Seguleuh 7th and some would say that means those above him are better in their "society". But to me it was stated he was not beaten. He was too tired from fighting back, to back, to back. Envy stated it was hours of constant fighting that he was too worn and left that island. So do we know if he could have done even better than 7th? Not really. It is also stated that Brood can match Rake as Kallor tried to pit them against each other knowing this.

Guess my point is everyone except the bottom ones seem to be on the same level range. Heck, I would probably throw Brys in there as well. To cut someone down and known you have not hit a major artery is more than impressive. Tool is also worth honorable mention.

[Kalahinen]

The most powerful fighters:

1. Kallor
2. KALLOR
3. K-A-L-L-O-R
4. Kal-lor
5. kALLOR
6. KaLlOr
7. Callor
8. Kal-Torak...no, I mean Kal-Lor
9. The High King
10. You know who

Cheers!

[Blues]

Isn't the quote by ST at the end of BH confirming that Apsalar's prowess is greater than Cotillions?

He says something like, "holy crap Apsalar 300 claw, not even cotillion..."

Regardless its hard to put the hot little asian chick ahead of the badass dude hooded in shadows with a rope covered in gore.

[Aptorian]

I think he said "not even Dancer". After what "The Rope" did on the Edur boats do you really want to get into a "Cotillion is a pussy" discussion?

I mean he is the biggest crybaby of the ascendants but I'd never say it to his face.

[Blues]

Ahh ok it was referring to Dancer the mortal before he became Cot....hence ST was comparing the two shadow dancers....I got it.

Also I never thought Cot was a pussy; in fact I tend to like his character more than Apsalar's. I was just trying to rank martial prowess.

Edit: Nvm I like Apsalar more still even if she is always having a pity party for herself.

[MegaLeafs]

Kallor is overrated. Besides wouldn't Whiskeyjack be before Kallor, he was going to finish him before his leg crapped out. Also I forget where this is mentioned but even Dassem took a while to get around his guard, training of course.

[Blues]

MegaLeafs;240075 said:

Kallor is overrated. Besides wouldn't Whiskeyjack be before Kallor, he was going to finish him before his leg crapped out. Also I forget where this is mentioned but even Dassem took a while to get around his guard, training of course.

Dujek makes note shortly after he sees Whiskeyjack's body. Korlat told him that his leg broke after he died, but Dujeck said something along the lines of, "Whiskeyjack was a superb swordsman. He used to spar with Dassem Ultor, and it always took Dassem awhile to get past his guard."

I'm paraphrasing but thats pretty close to the quote. When Kallor fought Whiskeyjack he hadn't been shot by the marines yet, so one could make the argument that Whiskeyjack>Kallor.

[Aptorian]

yes but the reason to why Kallor was left open for the lounge was that he stepped back on the butt of a spear or something and lost balance.

[Mcflury]

and wasn't Tay making sure Kalor couldn't use his full powers? something like that?

Well, I'm inclined to believe that in pure swordsmandskill WJ would've defeated Kallor anyways, but taking WJ's stupidness in account (concerning the never letting his leg be healed) Kallor definetly is better.

[blackzoid]

Quote

Top Ten
physical prowess (ie fighting)

1. Dassem Ultor
2. Segulah 1-3
3. Rake
4. Brood
5. Cottillion
EDIT: Karsa
6. Apsalar
7. Top Avowed
8. Kalam
9. Kallor

You should put Tool somewhere on this list. I know that the T'lan Imass have lost some of their shine since the "cooler" Ascendents started turning up but they are still very tough and undead Tool was their First Sword. I would have put him (when undead) on par with the Segulah 4th at least and above Kallor for sure.

[Mcflury]

I'm pretty sure Tool is still an amazing swordfighter while alive though... sure, if he gets hit by a sword now he'll definetly not respond to it the way he used to be when he was dead... but he'll still be able to stand his ground against most fighters.

[Aptorian]

Apparently you haven't read the theory propoesed some months ago. It's been suggested that undead like the KCCM Kell Hunters and the Imass, while less vulnerable and stronger, lose speed when they become undead.

That would account for Tool being unable to beat Mok and might mean that Tool the un-undead is a lot deadlier in his present form.

[Mcflury]

ah, okay... I idd missed that theory
I don't like the theory though... I mean, it would make sense in a way... but there is no reason to believe that theory is true I think. (I could even somehow refer to RG to say living Imass are pretty good fighters too... but I don't want to place any spoilers here )
I believe the T'lan were just very good fighters while they were dead because, when you stabbed them, they didn't feel pain, didn't bleed... so you basically had to almost chop of a whole limb to make sure he wouldn't use it anymore... So sure, the Imass will be weaker now back alive, but I don't think it's because they suddenly lost speed.

[Aptorian]

I think you missed my point. The living are quicker than the dead. Not vice versa.

Anyway it's just a theory.