Malazan Empire: Why Garden's of the Moon as a Title? - Malazan Empire

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Why Garden's of the Moon as a Title?

#21 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 06:05 PM

Somebody bring back the reputation function. I want to give Dredge some.
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#22 User is offline   Shalashaska89 

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 06:06 PM

This is my first ever post on a forum, so be nice.
I think the first book is called "gardens of the moon" because the "garden" part of the title refers to the land underneath moons spawn i.e. Darujhistan and the city of Pale etc, whilst the "moon" part refers to moons spawn floating above the land. Rake in the first book is fighting the empire by helping defend places like pale for a short while then moves onto darujhistan. So if you like he's almost "tending" to his "garden" because he is the one shaping events. In the first book you get a sense that Rake is one of the most dominant force there, after all it was his presence alone that kept the malazan army from attacking Pale directly for such a long time (2-3 years i think but i could be wrong). So since Rake is the dominant force there he is like a gargener who is the dominant force in his/her garden, shaping events as they see fit. So places like Darujhistan and pale become his "gardens" to do what he wants.
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#23 User is offline   Osserc - Lord of the Sky 

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 11:22 PM

Personally, I believe that the title Gardens of the Moon refers to the part in the book when Crokus and Apsalar are looking out of K'rul's temple, and Apsalar is talking about the REAL moon, and how the goddess, or something, would take all the people to the lakes and gardens of the REAL moon.

I respect everyone else's opinions, and mine's just another idea!
"The red ink had been watered down. He painted wash on the map, covering areas now held by the Malazan Empire. Fully one half of the map...the north half...was red. Baruk jumped, his right forearm jerking out and knocking over the inkwell. The red ink poured across his map. Cursing, Baruk sat back. His eyes widened as he watched the spreading stain over Darujhistan and continue south to Catlin..."
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#24 User is offline   Whiskeyjack629 

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 09:11 PM

View PostDredge, on 11 August 2009 - 07:07 PM, said:

It's not surprising that the title causes trouble, being hard to recognise as an identifiable thing or character or idea within the book. Most of the titles of the later books are easier to grok in that regard.

But I'm going to nod my head to the genius of the title, "Gardens of the Moon", for as perverse as it seems to name a book after a seemingly obscure reference in a single conversation, that reference encompasses a theme of enormous importance in the book and the series.

1. The story of the 'gardens of the moon', as told by Apsalar, offers the hope of future bliss. More broadly, you can read redemption or salvation for bliss.

To all those struggling in their day to day lives with the seemingly eternal problems of societies (war, injustice, tyranny[1]) and personal existence (heartbreak, illness, hunger), any hope of future salvation and bliss is obviously of enormous appeal. Readers of later books will recognise where this idea goes. The Chained God's apparent doctrine to mortals (regardless of his actual intentions) is the story of the gardens of the moon; an offer of future bliss and release from their present sufferings.

2. Apsalar's telling of the story of the 'gardens of the moon' frames it as a kind of fairy story or children's tale or fantasy.

In other words, it requires a certain naivety or wilful self-delusion to buy into it wholly, so there's actually two opposed themes derived from it:
( a ) subservience to - or faith in - a wilful self-deception or illusion offering the hope of future bliss,
-- versus --
( b ) clearer-eyed experience (or cynicism) teaching a truer but harder reality that hope is often transient (unless you struggle to hang on to it) and bliss elusive (unless you lower your expectations of it).

And that opposition is the crux of the drama in the entire series. Most (almost all?) of the major characters in the series embody the struggle between these notions in some way, and their experiences and personal evolution are an examination of these two competing ideas. (Consider Paran's path in GotM[2].) That's what makes the choice of title of the first book so brilliant.

Few, if any, characters perfectly attach to either end of this philosophical spectrum, but waver around the spaces in between. Naturally, it's the wavering that's interesting. However, in a very general way, in the first book, you might view some of the Malazans as falling into the first category at the beginning, at least to the extent that - jaded soldiers though they are - they believe that they are serving some kind of higher purpose in hope of reward. Naturally, experience can teach otherwise (again, consider Paran).

Of course, the longer someone has been around, the closer to the second category they generally fall. In terms of groups, rather than individuals, the embracing of the second ideal isn't often the result of revelation, but entropy and experience, and although groups don't encompass the free-will aspect of this idea (see note [1]), the important factor is that they are (largely) without the hope of reward or bliss. Think of the ennui that permeates the Tiste Andii and what led them to that (much of which only comes out in later books, admittedly), or more amusingly, Tool's often quoted ruminations about the T'lan Imass:

"Tell me, Tool, what dominates your thoughts?"
The Imass shrugged before replying, "I think of futility, Adjunct."
"Do all Imass think about futility?"
"No. Few think at all."
"Why is that?"
The Imass leaned his head to one side and regarded her, "Because Adjunct, it is futile."

(In one of those twists that makes the series so great, the T'lan Imass unexpectedly do find their bliss/salvation from an unusual source in MoI.)

Oh, and finally, later on the moon becomes obscured, "as if a war was raging on its surface" (quick paraphrase from somewhere later in the series), and finally breaks up... hmmm... big honking metaphors there, anyone?

Just my long-winded nickle's worth,
Dredge.

--------------------------


[1] One of the more amazing notions that appears in the series is that all forms of society, even the smallest community - is a form of tyranny. From anyone else, this'd sound like pure cynicism, but from an anthropologist (as Erickson is), it is - at least in the context of the Malazan series -something to bear in mind. Now I think this idea is first spelled out, albeit in passing, in MoI (in reference to the Jaghut's self-imposed personal isolationism), although it utterly dominates some later books. What's of interest (to me, at least) is the way in which this notion of tyranny as a social force appears reflected in the two opposed themes of the 'gardens of the moon' story: a personal subservience versus a rejection of the consolations of companionship.

[2] Paran has given over control of his life to an ideal of service to the Adjunct (early on in GotM) - in part a wilful self-delusion; that by following rather than making his own choices he can be absolved of the myriad challenges of free will. But new friendships undermine his isolation, casting him adrift as a pawn of other powers who test him sorely, and only by finally seeking to break his subservience to them does he begin to leave behind his illusion of hope granted by unthinking service; and now has to face the nasty idea that redemption (of any kind) will not come from any self-deception, and that new forms of more freely given service to others (and other ideals) - while being more ethically true to his heart - are without (illusory) guarantees of redemption. It's the hard road - no more gardens of the moon for him... apparently.

Many other characters touch upon this idea in different ways. Compare Lorn's path with Paran's: after being tested, and tempted to leave her illusions behind, she appears to return to the path of the gardens of the moon - in action at least, but what about her heart?

Or consider Whiskeyjack, Toc the Younger, and Rallick Nom (what do they really trust in? and how have their outlooks evolved with their allegiences/friendships and experiences?).

And in later books, consider the opposed themes of the 'gardens of the moons' with reference to... jeez, the list could be damn near endless... um, let's say, to start with: Heboric, Coltaine, Trull Sengar, Felisin, Toc the Younger (again), Beak, Anomander Rake etc.

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#25 User is offline   haroos 

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Posted 09 May 2010 - 03:24 PM

View PostImperial Historian, on 24 December 2007 - 11:18 PM, said:

It's a common question, and not one we have a definitive answer too.

I don't have the books with me, but the main quote concerns a tale of apsalars about the lord of the moon grallin? who tends gardens there, and one day everyone would go and live in happiness there. I think it's when she and Crokus travel together in chapter 16 or just before or after, so someone should be able to find it from there.

There's another one about gardens dying, something along the lines of 'one by one gardens died' around the climax in darujhistan, linking I think violence to a loss of innocence and the death of the gardens.

There's several more links to the moon in moon spawn, the year of the moon's tears from icariums clock and another reference to the year of the shattered moon.

As to why it was chosen as a title, probably because it just sounds quite cool, SE doesn't generally link strongly between titles and the books content. For example I don't think (reapers gale spoilers):
<span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Reaper's Gale even includes the world reapers gale, memories of ice is hardly linked and midnight tides is hardly mentioned either</span>


"memories of ice" is mentioned in the 3rd book.
i don't remember exatcly where, i think it's in a part involving toc, toolan o'nos and hot lady envy.

#26 User is offline   Salt-Man Z 

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:07 PM

"Midnight Tides" is mentioned too, though not necessarily in the book that bears the name.
"Here is light. You will say that it is not a living entity, but you miss the point that it is more, not less. Without occupying space, it fills the universe. It nourishes everything, yet itself feeds upon destruction. We claim to control it, but does it not perhaps cultivate us as a source of food? May it not be that all wood grows so that it can be set ablaze, and that men and women are born to kindle fires?"
―Gene Wolfe, The Citadel of the Autarch
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#27 User is offline   Tatterdemalion 

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 03:25 AM

Before I read 'Memories of Ice' I thought to myself, "Damn, what a lame name. "Memories of Ice." Sounds DUMB and LAME."
Then, while reading the book, I realized what it meant in the context of the Jaghut and T'lan Imass and it stole my breath.
Ever since it remains one of my favorite titles. It's thick.

That said, you can read into "Gardens of the Moon" too, but it is certainly less strong. While people can go on about what it means, when it comes up, and vague guesses, I think the more pertinent question is couldn't Erikson have come up with something better? I think so. It sounds cool, sure, but I think there is likely a better phrase out there that wraps up the gist of book 1 better than "Gardens of the Moon." Something about hounds or spinning coins. I'm just not clever enough to find it.

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#28 User is offline   BlackMoranthofDoom 

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 04:29 PM

I actually thought Gardens of the Moon was sort of like a metaphor for Darujhistan (Garden) which is described as a prestigious city, and is located right under Moon's Spawn (Moon).
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