[Urb]

Something that's been on my mind for a while now.
Do you guys know what warren Kruppe uses? Is it mentioned anywhere?
Perhaps the same as Seren Pedac (Mocra??)? With the mindbending and such...
I know Lorn's otataral sword knocked him out cold, so I assume that should narrow it down some (leave out the Holds and other older ones).
Is there something special about him (since very few, if any (Silverfox?), seem capable of appraising his skills), or is he just a High mage?

If there already is a thread covering this, could you direct me there please?

[Flawed]

Kruppe is a singulary brilliant minded Cherub. That or he is actually that lost elder god. Grizzen Farl.

Was that his name?

Sounds made up ish?

[Dolorous Menhir]

The identity of Kruppe's warren is a deliberately kept secret. SE has refused to answer that question in interviews.

What do we know about it?

His source of power is a human warren, since Kruppe was utterly defenceless against Adjunct Lorn's Otataral sword in GotM, he was actually knocked unconscious.

He is able to manipulate objects, for example when he walks through the markets and magics all sorts of items up his sleeves. Baruk could also do this, but this behaviour was far more prominent in GotM than in later books and so I think it can possibly be considered a GotMism. Either that, or it is a general mage ability and not restricted to users of particular warrens.

He can confuse and manipulate people, for example when he erases Murillio's memory of the conversation during which he correctly accuses Kruppe of being the Eel. This is very strong evidence that his warren (or one of his warrens) is Mockra, since that is the human warren of the mind.

Important note - I believe Kruppe survived the touch of Brood's hammer because he was under K'rul's protection. Kruppe may be a mage, but that is not the source of his power. His great strength is his intellect, and that is why he is K'rul's partner. There's no reason to think that Kruppe is a mage of great power, or that he is particularly old, non-human or has mysterious origins. He is simply an unparalleled genius.

But if his warren is Mockra, why sustain the mystery over it?

[Aptorian]

Agrees with DM totally.

I think Kruppe is a middling mage at most, there's nothing "special" about him at all he's simply, as someone in MoI suggests, blessed with superhuman intelligens.

He's Kru'lls man and anything he does is with Kru'lls power backing him up. I'm sure Kruppes consideres them partners rather than God and Underling, Kruppes ego is massive

[Urb]

Hmm... Haven't read that interview. How anoying that SE won't answer, but I guess maybe he isn't completely sure himself

I like the idea of him being able to use more than one warren (hadn't thought of that). Perhaps Meanas as well as Mockra, and more?

I also found it quite interesting to see in GotM how he was sleeping at lady Simtal's fete, and pulled Raest into his dream. Could that also be indicative of Mockra?

I don't agree with you as to him JUST being extremely intelligent. And I don't think he was in any need of K'rull's help when confronting Brood and his hammer. He seems pretty much impervious to the questings of other mages/ascendants trying to apraise him (notice Sorry/Cotillion, Quick Ben and of course Caladan Brood), and I'm under the impression that he was like that long before he met K'rull in GotM. Which means he obviously is an extremely capable mage, punctuated by his visage that fools noone, yet keeps everyone curious.

Also, is anyone else expecting him to play a vital part in the main story? The obvious would of course be that he helps K'rull defeat Kallor or some such, but I'm hoping SE will come up with something very unexpected

[Aptorian]

No mortal mage, except perhaps people like Tay and Quick, could have gotten away alive from Broods swing. It created a new freaking minimountain.

That was a god's interference... It had to be.

[Urb]

The way I see it, it's a testament to just how capable Kruppe is. HOW he did it is anyone's guess, but I'm pretty sure he did it himself. Also Silverfox found the notion of Kruppe actually needing any help was unlikely.

[Imperium Corruo]

Aptorian;208392 said:

No mortal mage, except perhaps people like Tay and Quick, could have gotten away alive from Broods swing.

Why say that "no mortal mage can do it", if you immediately give us a subset of mortal mages that can do it?

On point, I'm inclined to agree with the theory that Krup's relationship with K'rul played the major role there. But was it K'rul's direct interference? A set of static defenses K'rul attached to Kruppe? Or, does it come from power originating from K'rul, that Kruppe has access to, or that K'rul specifically granted him?

There are several possibilities and we will probably never be positive about what the actual situation is here, and it probably won't make any difference if it is one or the other.

[lopper]

Kruppe Owns All He Is A Master In Isguise Enjoy This Book Its The Best One----i Think Stevey Wanted To Kill Ppl In This Book Very Magical, Dark Andgraphic........................
Loveit

[Vengeance]

Imperium Corruo;208465 said:

Why say that "no mortal mage can do it", if you immediately give us a subset of mortal mages that can do it?

On point, I'm inclined to agree with the theory that Krup's relationship with K'rul played the major role there. But was it K'rul's direct interference? A set of static defenses K'rul attached to Kruppe? Or, does it come from power originating from K'rul, that Kruppe has access to, or that K'rul specifically granted him?

There are several possibilities and we will probably never be positive about what the actual situation is here, and it probably won't make any difference if it is one or the other.

I am not so sure that K'rul played a role. Krupp was powerful enough to help create a world and help in the transfer of 3 souls to one new body. Wasn't Krupp the holder of the beast warren when Brood swung the hammer. Is it possible to kill someone who has access to an entire warren, and is in effect the caretaker, like Burn? ( Did he help create a new warren, or did he restore access to an old warren that had been long forgotten.)

[Urb]

Vengance;210125 said:

I am not so sure that K'rul played a role. Krupp was powerful enough to help create a world and help in the transfer of 3 souls to one new body. Wasn't Krupp the holder of the beast warren when Brood swung the hammer. Is it possible to kill someone who has access to an entire warren, and is in effect the caretaker, like Burn? ( Did he help create a new warren, or did he restore access to an old warren that had been long forgotten.)

I can't remember the spesifications of the beast warren (something about the Mhybe's dream?), but I'm going to be so bold as to say noone is omnipotent in this series. So in answer to your question; yes, Kruppe CAN be killed :eek:

[Aptorian]

Vengance;210125 said:

I am not so sure that K'rul played a role. Krupp was powerful enough to help create a world and help in the transfer of 3 souls to one new body. Wasn't Krupp the holder of the beast warren when Brood swung the hammer. Is it possible to kill someone who has access to an entire warren, and is in effect the caretaker, like Burn? ( Did he help create a new warren, or did he restore access to an old warren that had been long forgotten.)

But all that stuff could be explained as Kru'll acting through Kruppe.

Something else just hit me though. Any ascendant seems to be able to have a Mortal Sword, Destriant and Shield Anvil.

If Keruli was the Destriant then Kruppe could be Kru'lls Mortal Sword.

Beware the Mortal Sword of a thousand chins

[Mott Irregular]

Aptorian;210833 said:

Beware the Mortal Sword of a thousand chins

House of Chins is a great book.
I won't spoil how the Dimpled God is involved, though.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Vengance;210125 said:

I am not so sure that K'rul played a role. Krupp was powerful enough to help create a world and help in the transfer of 3 souls to one new body. Wasn't Krupp the holder of the beast warren when Brood swung the hammer. Is it possible to kill someone who has access to an entire warren, and is in effect the caretaker, like Burn? ( Did he help create a new warren, or did he restore access to an old warren that had been long forgotten.)

Don't draw too many conclusions from the unique nature of Kruppe's dreams. That doesn't translate to his being very powerful in his waking hours.

Remember when Adjunct Lorn attacked his party and Kruppe was rendered useless by the Otataral? If he can't withstand that, then how can we believe that he defeated Brood's hammer?

No, I think that was all K'rul's protection, which Kruppe had not yet acquired during GotM (K'rul's being only newly returned to the world, and meeting Kruppe for the first time in his dreams. Clearly the relationship between the pair has developed far more by the time of MoI).

[Witan]

While popping around the forums an idea struck me. Perhaps Kruppe is a warren.

Consider: Shadows in the real world have a relationship to the warren of shadow which in turn relates to the holds.

Therefore one can assume that real world fire has a relationship with the warren of fire etcetera.

If that is true then the human mind is related to Mocra and if Kruppe truly is a singular intellect then does his mind not draw on Mocra to a far greater extent than anyone else?

We have been told that warrens can fracture and can break and are regularly damaged in various ways. Perhaps Kruppe has such a potent intellect that his mind became a sub-warren of Mocra. When k'rul came back he noticed he had sprouted a new warren like having an extra pinky toe so he wandered over there and found Kruppe.

Since anyone can learn to be a mage Kruppe probably has access to other warrens just like any mage of superior intellect might but his real power is literally within the realm of his own mind.

A mind so powerful it became a world of it's own with an ego to match.

[Dolorous Menhir]

That's an interesting idea Witan, but it seems a little tenuous.

Two points -

1. We don't need to propose that Kruppe possible created his own personal warren /magical realm - we know he already has. His dreams. I'm not sure if you're building on that, but you don't actually mention his dreamworld in the post so I thought it needed to be pointed out.

2. And K'rul first made contact with Kruppe through those dreams. I'm not sure from your posts if you are working from that fact or independently proposing that K'rul contacted him because of a personal warren. We can't ignore geography as a factor in the discovery too - in which city was K'rul first returned to activity in the world? Darujhistan. And in which city is Kruppe based and extremely important?

[Silander]

Actually that second last one, is not a bad idea. Before I read to the bottom and read that one however, I had a few thoughts. Kruppe we all agree is a genius. Perhaps one of only a handful of minds on the world with such an intellect. Now he has several key things in his favour, one is that his dreams are untouchable, even by the elder Gods, which is why Krul needed him. Two is his vast intellect and three ..well he really doesn't seem the type does he?
As for his warrens..he might not even have great skill at wielding them. Certainly he can erase memories of conversations, but maybe that is just a knack? In the third book one of the BB mages 'borrows' a spell from Bluepearl, a mage using the warren of Ruse.
Now maybe its also possible to learn one or two 'tricks' from a warren you don't wield if you are thought? That would account for a lot of peoples seeming ultra diversity in magic. NOt to say now, that Kruppe doesn't have two or three warrens and I like the idea of the Sub-warren.
As for the items flying up his sleeve at speed. ..Well Serc comes to mind and I would imagine its not a rare warren. But also, maybe it is just Mockra? I mean SE could be using the whole, mind over matter, like a sort of telekinesis doing all sorts of tricks with it. Kruppe certainly has the mental capacity to be a candidate for it.
As for the mountain/ Brood thing, I am surprised that Brood did it. I mean surely a man of his power can tell when he's been baited? Unless the whole display was for every one's benefit? I mean surely Brood could tell if the fat man was that powerful? Maybe they were both in on it? Brood has been around for a while and the chained one is after Burn in a big way. Who knows but I can't wait to find out.

[Urb]

@Witan:
Personally I don't like the idea of Kruppe just being K'rul's front man. Mostly because Keruli already occupies that particular position. Kruppe strikes me more as one acting on behalf of his own interests. That they happen to coincide with the ventures of the benign Elder God K'rul is most likely due to Kruppe's wise judgement. That being said, I feel there must be something special about Kruppe. Your theory is very interesting, cheers

@Silander:
About the notion of Brood and Kruppe putting on a show; could you elaborate on any particular motive? I'm not so certain Brood could actually estimate the powers Kruppe had at his disposal. Granted that is my very subjective opinion.

[Crow Clan Baby]

I think Kruppe is intentionally the Malazan "Tom Bombadil" (not that SE necessarily had that in mind when writing him), and it's likely we'll never really find out who he is.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Kruppe's just a really intelligent human with moderate magical skill and a one-of-a-kind mind.