[QuickTidal]

QuickTidal, on 17 July 2009 - 03:32 AM, said:

So, I just finished Well Of Ascension and oh...my...god...was I bored by it. 700 pages (MMP) to say what could have been said in 100. Sweet jiggety jeebus. I thought Mistborn was so amazin and original, that Well Of Ascension just dissapointed me on all levels. Even the revelations at the end are boring. The characterization is lackluster at best (as mentioned by others).

Maybe Sanderson is a one book at a time standalone kind of gent...who knows, I just think that he should have made the series a duology with the second book (comprising the important bits from WOA and HOA) clocking in at the same length as Mistborn....just very sad that the second book was so boring.

Wow, what a difference a couple of years makes. LOL

Since I posted my boredom about the second book, I have revisited it and treated it NOT as a successor to the first book, but the start of a new two book series and I liked it much better. I found I had to treat the first one as the preliminary heist book that sets up all the huge worldbuilding in the second.

I have also, clearly, become something of a card-carrying Sanderson fanboy. I dug WARBREAKER and THE WAY OF KINGS was my fave fantasy of 2010.

I finally got around to starting the final Mistborn book, THE HERO OF AGES and for me, it is so amazing and much better than even my second (less upset) read of the second book.

Spoiler

Only 100 pages in, but so far Elend (as Allomancer/Emperor/Warrior) is leaps and bounds better. Even the Kandra side story (OreSeur bothered me in the second book, but TenSoon is really impressing me) is a great read. Is it me or is Elend more Kelsier-like and that may lend itself well to the character being better. As well, the pre-scripts before each chapter are once again interesting and wholly informative. Marsh's plotline especially is cool because of the conflict between the Ruin-controlled parts of him warring with his true nature when it gets a chance to peek through....very interesting!

[Gothos]

Not going to read the thread due to possible spoiler exposure, but I just finished the first book yesterday and got started on The Well Of Ascension and... I haven't had such a good read in a long, long time.
Sanderson bravely burst right into my 'authors I actually like' bubble (with Sapkowski, Cook, Martin, Herbert and, of course, SE&ICE) and I honestly can't say if I liked Mistborn more than the...... the malazan books, or not. It's just so good. It doesn't have the epic scale and the worldbuilding isn't as detailed in some aspects, but HELL doesn't mr. Sanderson know how to pace a book. The flow of the story was quite astonishing, absolutely perfect. I couldn't get my eyes off the pages.

[drinksinbars]

finished the trilogy at the weekend and i felt they worked really well as a trilogy. Plenty of harking back to earlier stuff and in general (despite the pacing issues in two and the obivousness of a lot of stuff) the book worked really well. a few moments where you wonder why the characters are so dense, but apart from that it was a highly enjoyable read.

[QuickTidal]

drinksinbars, on 21 March 2011 - 01:33 PM, said:

finished the trilogy at the weekend and i felt they worked really well as a trilogy.

I think this is the key to the enjoyment of the series. If you approach it as one book with three big parts it tells an amazing story when assembled. The books are good on their own, but they blew me away together.

[RodeoRanch]

Just finished reading the trilogy. Terribly dull stuff. And what a weak, lame ending. These were the first Sanderson books I've read and I was seriously disappointed.

[Aptorian]

I will agree that the series is very slow and dull, it is very limited in scope and the passing is all wrong for my tastes, but I actually loved the way the book wrapped up.

Spoiler

I'd been a bit miffed about what purpose the Terrisman servant served in the over all story besides being an advisor, and then all that shit about religions and text books came together so beautifully that I couldn't help admire that twist. I thought it was an excellent ending, the story up to it not so much though. Luckily the magic system kept it entertaining.

[Gothos]

Slow and dull? I thought it had nigh-perfect pacing, actually, and scene flow was spot on. I couldn't take my eyes away from book 1 and book 3 (sadly book 2 is lower quality than the other two)...

[Aptorian]

Spoiler

I'm not saying that Brandon can't write a great scene, he certainly can, the problem is that nothing happens.

They go to some ball, have some conversation and fret about some personal issue for a couple of pages, then they go back, then they have a fight, then they go to another ball, then they go to cave, then they go back, then they look at a book for a while, then they have some kind of personal issue, then they go to a ball, then they have another fight. All through the book there is some mystery that they struggle to figure out what is, over and over and fucking over, and they of course can not share these thoughts with the rest because [plausible excuse/suspicion/mental illness].

There is no feeling of progress. I think this is why Sanderson was chosen for the WoT, same structure. A good opening then a whole lot of nothing in the middle and then a big climax in the ending. Every time.

If the trilogy should have been good, then the defeat of the Lord Ruler and Vin becoming the Hero of Ages and the release of Ruin should have happened in the same book. Then should have begun the fight against Ruin. It would have made for a much better story because it would have made room for much more destruction and fighting. I also disliked how over powered Ruins influnce was and how ineffectual the good guys was. I would have liked if there was some trek to the waste lands where they found some kind of ancient peoples who had retained all the knowledge they needed to combat Ruin.

And Vin was such an annoying woman. Sure, when she was in battle mode I loved her, I also liked it when she was in her EVERYONE IS A THREAT mode when protecting the King, but otherwise... oh god, 3 books in the company of an emotional wreck. Meewhhh I love to wear dresses but I feel so guilty for liking dresses, I just want to go balls and feel like a woman, meeeewhhhh. I love him, I love him not, I am not good enough for him, why does he love me, meeeewwwhhhh... oh for the love of fuck.

[End of Disc One]

That's odd, I think that every scene in the Mistborn trilogy serves the plot. Except for the scenes about character development, but it was always obvious that those scenes were there to push the character through his/her personal arc. I find it strange that you thought there was no feeling of progress, because I simply did not get that feeling.

[King Bear]

I had many of the same concerns as Battle Plaptypus.

Spoiler

Book 2 especially felt like it was going nowhere to me. It was a lot of leadership training, and sitting around waiting for the siege to begin and agonising over whether the attacking forces could be defeated. The tedium was broken only by Vin's duels with that mysterious enemy mistborn. Pretty much everything else interesting and significant happened in the last 100 or so pages. So yeah, the important stuff from book 2 could easily have been in book 1 for a stronger series.

I too liked the ending with Sazed. Very clever, and touching.

@Rodeo: I've only read Mistborn and Sanderson's WOT books. I read Mistborn first so was pleasantly surprised that his WOT books were actually very good. Because of my Mistborn experience though I'm apprehensive about reading Sanderson's other works. When you say that you liked his other books but not Mistborn, that makes me want to give him another shot. What would you recommend? The less like Mistborn the better, obviously.

Finally:

Quick Ben > Vin.

[End of Disc One]

Quickie Ben I think The Way of Kings reads a lot like Sanderson's WoT books. Elantris on the other hand reads like Mistborn. Haven't read Warbreaker.

[King Bear]

End of Disc One, on 12 April 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

Quickie Ben I think The Way of Kings reads a lot like Sanderson's WoT books. Elantris on the other hand reads like Mistborn. Haven't read Warbreaker.

Thanks. I'll try Way of Kings sometime then, but only when it's complete. So what I mean is I'll get back to you in 10 years or so.

[RodeoRanch]

I did find the magic system high original and entertaining. But Apt nailed my main gripes with the books. So I guess Apt wins?

[Aptorian]

I am hoping that he will pull of something not quite as epic in scope with the new stempunk mistborn novel, because the pacing felt very too slow for my taste, I would prefer something more simple like a story centered in one city, like a small revolution/civil war, gang war, what ever. Something that wont revolve around going to balls and pining over intellectual fobs.

[polishgenius]

I finished the trilogy recently. I confess to disappointment. I quite liked the first one, despite not getting into the prose and finding Vin and Elend bland - Star Wars recast as a heist story with almost New Weird-esque trappings and the Belgariad's Silk as the centerpiece character? Yes please. But the second and third lost focus, for me.

Spoiler

Without Keisler, Vin and Elend just got more irritating,

and the large-scale magical plot, while interesting of itself, was badly paced and interspersed by sections which I found, by turn, to be sub-Abraham sociological/political and sub-Bakker philosophical stuff. And I still didn't get into the prose. The second one was okay but I ended up skimming large portions of the third.

I won't say I'm bugging out of Sanderson- his ideas are corking and as he keeps writing, he'll likely improve, but I'm very wary of his work now. I'm tempted by Way of Kings, but...

[champ]

Is it worth reading the third when I wasn't thrilled with the first two?

/wonders if I am missing out...

[worry]

I dunno. I thought they got better and better, and was quite surprised at how many (all?) of the threads he set up -- things that didn't necessarily even seem like threads at the beginning -- all had payoffs. I wasn't overly fascinated with the mechanics of the magic system, though Sanderson clearly was (as were many readers I'd wager), but even the revelations in that regard caught me off guard in the third book. So while I wasn't totally thrilled with the story, I thought each volume improved on the premise and the writing opened up...he's got room for improvement storytelling-wise, and actually is improving. As far as being a technician though I was pretty amazed at what he accomplished by the end, it was A-level rewarding on that front.

[Sinisdar Toste]

personally, the third book was my favourite. i say you might as well go ahead and read it champ, because it's a nice smooth way to introduce yourself to the greater cosmere, and it finishes the trilogy in spectacular fasion.

[QuickTidal]

Third book was my fave too. In the end I was so emotionally attached that it got me misty-eyed.

[Kanubis]

Ok, I finished these a week ago. The writing wasn't always great but the ideas were excellent, and even slight irritation at Vin and Sazed's whining internal monologue weren't enough to stop me being very hooked.

I have a problem though, and it's only played on my mind more over the last week rather than me forgetting about it:

Spoiler

The skaa. Their plight is such a focus in the first book. In fact, them being treated like shit is the first thing we see.

But as the series draws to a close it seems to get forgotten in a swamp of sympathy for the Lord Ruler and a lot of respect, albeit grudging, for nobles who happily participated in the 'rape & murder' relationship he set down.

The final verdict on the Lord Ruler seems to be very much that he started out with good intentions. The Ashmounts and crappy brown foliage were the best he could do with the powers he was granted. And yet it explicitly states that he created the Skaa immediately, and never explains why an underclass that would suffer a lifetime of abuse and terror were in any way a necessity for his plan against Ruin. We know that the noble class weren't created from his friends, because they become the Kandra, so it was nepotism.

Likewise, the nobles who are 'ok really when you see it from their point of view.' Like King Yomen. Sanderson oozes empathy for this character. Yes, yes, the skaa feel abandoned by a loss of structure. But even if we accept that it's ok for them to stay in the role of servile underclass, we're never told why we should have even the smallest ounce of positive feeling for a person who can condone the frequent rape, murder and subjugation of a people that even if they were designed 'inferior' clearly have full sentience and the capacity to feel love, fear, pain and loss as much as any noble.

Maybe I missed something, but at the end of it all Sanderson seemed more concerned with making us see how the Skaa/Noble dynamic was ok or at least understandable by trying to make us empathise with characters like Yomen, than he did with demonising the horrific treatment they received.

It left a bit of a sour taste to be honest.

...still enjoyed them though.