[PAN]

What is it? and what does it do? and does anyone see him coming back from wherever he has gone?

[Falco]

Its a definite RAFO

[Bottle]

It'll be really interesting to see how much 'technology' SE gives it. We've already had a glimpse of an almost sci-fi element to the world when Icarium and Mappo explored the short-tail sky keep inbedded in the fissure. i.e there was an anti-gravity chamber and iirc a glass cockpit which held a Short-tail inside.

I really like the idea of K'chain technology and Icariums too, it just seems to fit really well in the Malazan world, and adds a bit more spice to it.

I always thought something was ging to rise out of the ground at the end of RG, I have no idea what this machine will be though. I presume it'll be a weapon of some sort, but even that's no way certain.

[Brys Beddict]

Icarium believed the machine might be broken, and after the entire scene occurs, we find out it really is broken. As for what the machine did, it sucked the memories out of anybody that died near it. Least thats the impression I got. I also want to see Icarium come back, crawling through some more wreckage. Wonder how messed he'll be this time?

[Abyss]

It would be the height of irony (at least in the Alanis' sense) if the machine was supposed to return Iccy's memories and heal his brain but actually messes him up even MORE.

It's his K'rul comment plus the bleeding that really leaves me wondering what the intention in fact was.

- Abyss, wonders if maybe some therapy wouldn't have been easier.

[Alorion DarkenBlade]

Well my truley obsurd theory is when ole iccy boy said if Krull can do it so can i..i thought he meant take a whole continent into himself ..IE when Kallor scorched the earth and he took it into himself.
Maybe iccy thought that was the only way to kill Rhuald ..I know crazy and silly

Alorion

[Mael]

I'm not commenting on this topic until i finish reading the book a second time. There are too many small hints placed throughout the book. From Kettle's mysterious comment at the beginning (where Ruin says he intends to keep listening) to the priest that believes Icarium is the "One true God" (crazy hint there).

[Abyss]

True, but EVERYONE believes that THEIR god is the one, true, greatest, most wonderfulest, dreadfulest, powerfulestest god EVER.

- Abyss, abyssiestestiest.

[Agraba]

I think the 'K'rul' thing refers to him 're-awakening' as K'rul did in GotM.

[Mael]

Abyss;196689 said:

True, but EVERYONE believes that THEIR god is the one, true, greatest, most wonderfulest, dreadfulest, powerfulestest god EVER.

- Abyss, abyssiestestiest.

- Mael swim's casually around Abyss' bait while giving it the "eye" but doesn't bite until his re-read is complete

[Bottle]

I actually thought the K'rul comment, as it had blood involved. Meant something about creating a Warren, but that was of course wild unsupported speculation.

[PAN]

ya i got that impression too that it had something to do with creating a warren or something else out of his blood

[Sloppyfresh]

I was also under the impression that Icarium was trying to create/repair a warren... so I give this weak, but interesting theory. Anythign in the {} are things that I would (heart) for someone to explain.... Im new to all this... so if there are any pages I need to fill in the {} please tell me!

Destriant Run'Thurvian : 'Among the ancient Toblakai - according to our own histories - there could arise individuals, warriors, who became something of a warren unto themselves. Such power varies in its efficacy, and it would appear that this sort of blood talent was waning in the last generations of the Toblakai civilisation, growing ever weaker.' (BH UKTpb, p.746)

What if the machine was a way for Icarium to 'root' or solidify his own warren... or access it?

We know now that Icarium was 1/2 Jhag 1/2 Toblakai..... and he is one of the most powerful Toblakai that we know of... what if he had a warren, and it was sundered by trying to save Gothos... it would help explain how he shattered the shadow warren. (1 warren vs another) {was it ever stated a reason why shadow was shattered, other than because it was already weak from before? 'This fragment of the long-fractured Tiste Edur warren (The Nascent) was by far the largest he had come across, larger even than the one that surrounded Tremorlor, the Azath Odhanhouse.' (HoC, UK MMPB, p.324) could it be a azath was shadow orientated? } If Icarium was the physical reprentation of his own warren, and that warren was shattered as well when attacking the Azath, it could also explain his memory loss(shattered memories). In RG the door to the machine is also called wounded.. or breached.. kind of like a warren that needs to be healed. I would suggest that Icarium gave his blood to seal the wounded door... so he could get into the machine, or make it work properly. This would also work with the whole K'rul warren thing... because Icarium would be giving his blood to create a warren(like K'rul did for all warrens?{did he really make them all, or just some?}) or he could of gave his blood to repair the machine (like K'rul did to save the continent...{i forget the name...but doesnt it now exist in the real world, not in a warren? was it only healed in a warren? and if soo... what is the imperial warren then with all the KCCM in it?})

Edited to help explain azath shadow relation.

Wow... way to much typing... so little sense...

[bubba]

or........just another clock. A big atomic clock that sucks memories to run off!!!!....or not

I'm to tired to think straight. just glad I finally was able to read the book and enter this room.

[Sloppyfresh]

Also... who is Icariums Toblakai mother? If Gothos is the father... then the mother should be powerful as well...

[panic]

I'm thinking that Icarium will now have too many people's memories. He's going to be be even more messed up I think.

[Abyss]

It was fairly strongly implied that Kilamandaros was Iccy's mom (Gothos, you sly dawg, you).

But his parentage doesn't seem to explain the tech savvy with his machines. I'm wondering at a KC/KN link there, given his apparent understanding of the KN skykeep in TB.

But even accounting for the lizard link or his parentage, that accounts for Omtose Phellack, Kechan and whatever power Kila uses - and she skullpunches dragons in the skull. A tech manipulation of those three origins would be serious.

Tho, ice, gravity, 'primal' power... no obvious memory/time link. I think Iccy developed something totally new, and then tinged it with chaos post the Azath House incident.

- Abyss, and maybe a twist of lemon.

[Mael]

Abyss;196961 said:

It was fairly strongly implied that Kilamandaros was Iccy's mom (Gothos, you sly dawg, you).

Did i miss something? I had assume Killmandaros was FA and Iccy's mom was Toblakai. Are Toblakai and FA related?

[Dag]

Mael;197070 said:

Did i miss something? I had assume Killmandaros was FA and Iccy's mom was Toblakai. Are Toblakai and FA related?

Errrm... A brief digression... I'm sure this has already been discussed somewhere, but I can't find the right thread at the moment, sooo...

I've just re-read the scene in HoC where Karsa and Delum find that cave with the glyphs (pg. 80-82) that explain the creation of Teblor tribes. Somehow I have always assumed that the text (in which Icarium is also mentioned) implies that Teblor were descended from Jaghut. Also, there is a comment by Belurdan somewhere in the GotM that he, as Thelomen, has Jaghut blood. So, when Karsa meets Icarium in RG and looks into his eyes and recognizes Toblakai blood in him, it seemed to me that Karsa might actually mistake Jaghut blood for Toblakai blood, 'cos he's a part Jaghut himself, without knowing it for sure... in which case it wouldn't really matter if Icarium's mother was a Toblakai or not. No? Wrong...? :confused: If I got it all wrong (and judging by your posts now I think I might) could someone please tell me who wrote those glyphs and who were actually the Teblor ancestors?

More on topic:

To egoistically quote myself (I've posted this in another thread dealing with Icarium's storyline):

Dag;189984 said:

It does mention the Eres'al as creators of one of the artifacts, but nothing implies that Icarium was there, building the machine together with Eres. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have this feeling that this machine was not built by Icarium, but rather for him.
Mael says about the machine on pg. 173:
"A central piece is missing, as you suspected, sir. Alas, you will not find it, for it is not physical. The framework that will hold it together is one of energy, not matter. And it has yet to arrive."

I still don't get the connection between the Eres'al and Icarium's machine. Most of you agreed that Eres'al were unable to build a complex device, but still I wonder if there is any special signifficance in the fact that Icarium has obviously used Eres'al artefacts to put his machine together. I mean, with Eres'al ability to travel through time and such... Was there Eres magic involved? With what purpose? What role do te Eres'al play in Icarium's history...?

[Dolorous Menhir]

Quote

I still don't get the connection between the Eres'al and Icarium's machine. Most of you agreed that Eres'al were unable to build a complex device, but still I wonder if there is any special signifficance in the fact that Icarium has obviously used Eres'al artefacts to put his machine together. I mean, with Eres'al ability to travel through time and such... Was there Eres magic involved? With what purpose? What role do te Eres'al play in Icarium's history...?

I don't think there is a connection to get. The Eres'al didn't build Icarium's machine, there's no reason to think so.

On the contrary, it's been heavily hinted that Icarium got his engineering know-how from the Short-Tails. You know, the race that has actually been shown to have high technology, not the Eres - who are essentially the "missing link" between apes and humans.