Malazan Empire: Feist! - Malazan Empire

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Feist!

#21 User is offline   Shuglin 

  • Sergeant
  • PipPip
  • Group: (COPPA) Users Awaiting Moderatio
  • Posts: 79
  • Joined: 04-May 07

Posted 15 May 2007 - 04:27 AM

I Liked Magician Apprentice and Master and my next favorite would have to be Shadow of Dark Queen Which I Liked because the main char's name was also my name :p Erik lawl anyway Ive noticed alot of the author's I really liked are steadily going down hill such as . Feist, LKH, Glen Cook, Steven Brust, and especially Cook and Brust they seem to be trying to get every last drop out of the series Taltos and TBC. My grammar is horrible I know dont burn me at the stake for it though :p

#22 User is offline   Astra 

  • Sony Reader PRS-650
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,064
  • Joined: 06-March 06
  • Location:UK

Posted 15 May 2007 - 02:22 PM

stone monkey;184901 said:

Whatever you do, never -and I really do mean never - read Rise of a Merchant Prince. If somebody recommends that you do so; don't walk, run away from them as fast as your legs can carry you (Or obtain some sort of hypersonic transport, if you're able). I'd also advise that you be screaming at the top of you lungs as you do this.

To be on the safe side.


Could not agree more.


I found Magician to be a bit too simple. I was not impressed by it at all. It was OK but a bit to predictable and naive.
However I really loved the rest of the series:

Silverthorn
A Darkness at Sethanon

Prince of the Blood
The King's Buccaneer

Shadow of a Dark Queen
Rise of a Merchant Prince :confused:
Rage of a Demon King
Shards of a Broken Crown


Then I have read another book, Krondor: The Betrayal ..I hated it! This one was as big disappointment as Rise of a Merchant Prince for different reasons though.
Rise of a Merchant Prince was a non-fiction about doing business in medieval world. Utterly borring. I am not a business man and all this book was about - making business.
Krondor: The Betrayal - wa like a book written after a coomputer game, quest. Nothing more. If you run west, then make 3 staps north then try to open a door, then look behind a boulder and find a biche with a gem...etc.


I liked a lot all other books that I mentioned above besides those two (with a small exception of the 4th book on Serpentwar saga. I liked it but when I was starting to read it I could not imagine a single reason why it is there and what could happen after everything was setteled in Rage of a Demon King).
I have not read his last 2 trilogies Conclave of Shadows and Darkwar, so I cannot coment on them.
Only Two Things Are Infinite, The Universe and Human Stupidity, and I'm Not Sure About The Former.
Albert Einstein
0

#23 User is offline   Flawed 

  • Flawed
  • Group: Team Handsome
  • Posts: 1,323
  • Joined: 04-April 07
  • Location:Dorset
  • Interests:winning the lotto
  • Id like some peace....

Posted 15 May 2007 - 02:43 PM

stone monkey;184901 said:

Whatever you do, never -and I really do mean never - read Rise of a Merchant Prince. If somebody recommends that you do so; don't walk, run away from them as fast as your legs can carry you (Or obtain some sort of hypersonic transport, if you're able). I'd also advise that you be screaming at the top of you lungs as you do this.

To be on the safe side.


Agreed S M. That book seem to disintegrate before my eyes and became less and less of a Science Fantasy book rather then a Young Merchants Love Fantasy Novel.

If i wanted that id but Mills and Boon!

Who is Mills and Boon?

Acrington Stanley!

EXACTLY!
"I think i was a bad person before. Before this time. I do not try to be good now but i am not bad. Perhaps if i try harder i may get a better hand dealt next time? But surely that makes it pointless? Perhaps i am good. Just good at being pointless. But that would make me bad. Bad at having a point. Ah…. I see now. I was nothing before, I am nothing now. I am bad purely because im pointless. "

EQ 10
0

#24 User is offline   Coco with marshmallows 

  • DIIIIIIIIIIVVVEEEEE
  • Group: LHTEC
  • Posts: 2,115
  • Joined: 26-October 05

Posted 15 May 2007 - 04:48 PM

astra_lestat;185292 said:

Krondor: The Betrayal - wa like a book written after a coomputer game, quest. Nothing more. If you run west, then make 3 staps north then try to open a door, then look behind a boulder and find a biche with a gem...etc.


correct me if i'm wrong, but i do believe that it actually WAS a book based on a computer game. At least if memory serves.

just had a little google and this
appears.
meh. Link was dead :(
0

#25 User is offline   Astra 

  • Sony Reader PRS-650
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,064
  • Joined: 06-March 06
  • Location:UK

Posted 15 May 2007 - 04:52 PM

Cocoreturns;185349 said:

correct me if i'm wrong, but i do believe that it actually WAS a book based on a computer game. At least if memory serves.

just had a little google and this
appears.


I didn't know it :p
Only Two Things Are Infinite, The Universe and Human Stupidity, and I'm Not Sure About The Former.
Albert Einstein
0

#26 User is offline   Kazz D'Avore 

  • Recruit
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 14-July 06

Posted 15 May 2007 - 06:14 PM

That explains much about that novel... the only decent character was Gorath and even he was pretty bad. The plot(repeat of Darkness at Sethanon anyone?) and the other characters were just awful.
0

#27 User is offline   Abyss 

  • abyssus abyssum invocat
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 22,433
  • Joined: 22-May 03
  • Location:The call is coming from inside the house!!!!
  • Interests:Interesting.

Posted 15 May 2007 - 07:27 PM

Speaking in gross generalization, I tend to think that Feist occupies a niche in fantasy lit with Eddings, Brooks, and other 'High Fantasy' types... the plots, characters and concepts are relatively straightforward, archetypical and generally predictable - good triumphs over evil, the hero gets the girl, the world is safe once more, etc etc...

If you read them at a certain time, ie, early in your exposure to fantasy lit, they are entertaining and fun. At a different time, ie, post reading GRRM, SE, CM and similar, the relative 'fantasy lite' aspect can be off-putting.

That being said, i, for one, was almost offended by KING'S BUCCANEER... Feist gives us this interesting character, a prince of a heroic line of heroes, who is a cripple. And i was genuinely curious to see how Feist would do a High Fantasy story with such a protagonist. And then he fixes the handicap with a deus ex magica convenient spell and does a lame (no pun intended) 'his leg still hurts when he doubts himself' storyline until in the end our hero, whole and happy, defeats evil, gets the girl, etc etc.

- Abyss, thought KRONDOR: THE VIDEOGAME was a waste of tree.
THIS IS YOUR REMINDER THAT THERE IS A
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
0

#28 User is offline   Werthead 

  • Ascendant
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Joined: 14-November 05

Posted 15 May 2007 - 08:06 PM

My assessment of Feist:

Magician
A really good fantasy story which starts off making you slam your head against the nearest wall in frustration at its Tolkienisms and cliches (long, perilous journey through a mine; hero is an orphan of uncertain parentage) but suddenly kicks into gear about 300 pages in when the samurai turn up and start kicking ass. This is actually a mildly cliche-defying subversive novel. There is no bad guy. Everyone is the victim of circumstance. Pug's parents are irrelevant menial labourers who died when he was young. They weren't anyone important at all. Read this when you're 14 and have only read Eddings and Brooks and likely it will blow your mind.

Silverthorn: Meh. Less epic than Magician with much more cheesy, out-and-out evil villians. Disappointing, but passable.

A Darkness at Sethanon: Excellent battle sequences (Armengar is one of the better sieges in fantasy history) give way to Feist's most annoying habit - the employment of unconvincing deus ex machina endings. Readable though.

Prince of the Blood: Feist chainsaws his own foot off with the introduction of Nakor, a character so enragingly annoying that you want him to die the second you meet him. If you can survive that, the book is passble. The Empire of Great Kesh is an interesting culture - notably different to both the Kingdom and the Tsurani - and its politics are intriguing. Not his best writing though.

The King's Buccaneer: Outrageous DEM strikes again, but it sets up Nicholas (one of his more interesting characters) and the whole Pantathian/Novindus storyline that is vitally important in the next series.

The Empire Trilogy: His best work, co-written with Janny Wurts. Cleverly interwoven with the events of the first three Riftwar books, this is a scorching tale of political intrigue and military machinations. Oddly far better than any other work the authors have produced by themselves.

Shadow of a Dark Queen: A fresh start to the series. The sound of Feist clearing his voice and starting anew with a new cast and a new threat. Cleverly written, with us following new characters around as they interact with older ones and the relevance of The King's Buccaneer becomes clear. One of his better books.

Rise of a Merchant Prince: I DEFY YOU ALL! But I'm in good company, as Scott Lynch loves this book as well and cites it as an influence on his Gentleman Bastard series. Feist, almost bemusingly, interrupts his massive end-of-the-world-threatening epic storyline to tell a taut economic thriller about the rise of Roo Avery from warrior-slave to merchant prince extraordinaire. In Avery Feist creates a convincingly arrogant character at the mercy of events transpiring around him that he cannot even see. Feist convincingly answers the question most fantasy authors avoid - who pays for all these vast armies and fancy castles - and in doing so sets a precedent for Tyrion Lannister, Locke Lamora and Tehol Beddict. One of his strongest books, IMO.

Rage of a Demon King: Possibly the most schizophrenic book I've ever read. In the war sequences, including desperate sea battles, the firebombing of beloved, familiar locations and horrific trench warfare, Feist nearly approches GRRM, SE and even Bakker in his depiction of carnage and desperate, heroic last stands. Spectacular stuff (even if much more detailed maps are needed to follow the campaign). However, the magical subplot set on other planes is exceedingly boring. When Feist swoops in and ends the war with the most unbelievably bad DEM I've ever seen, you may feel the need to throw the book through the nearest window. This could have been Feist's Memories of Ice and he bottles it :)

Shards of a Broken Crown: Very, very, very poor and totally unnecessary fourth book in the subseries with another DEM ending that's worse than the volume before. That's all that needs to be said.

The Riftwar Legacy: Loosely adapted from the excellent RPG Betrayal at Krondor and it's so-so sequel, Return to Krondor. However, these three books are so bad it's almost impossible to describe. Krondor: The Betrayal is one of the blandest books I've ever read. Feist was going through a very painful, drawn-out divorce at the time which explains why his mind wasn't on the job, but it's still disappointing.

Honoured Enemy: co-written with William R. Forstchen, this is actually one of the best books in the series (maybe Feist should consider writing in collaboration more often?), pitting two elite military forces - one Tsurani, one Kingdom - against one another during the height of the Riftwar. Razor-sharp characters, excellent dialogue and a generally great if unoriginal behind-enemy-lines storyline make for a thoroughly enjoyable novel. The two follow-ups, written with other authors, I have not read.

Talon of the Silver Hawk: This is where myself and REF parted company, at least for now. A marked improvement over the awful Legacy books and Broken Crown, but still not his best work. Pretty bland, in fact, and both Roldem and the Eastern Kingdoms - which people have been waiting to see since they were first mentioned in Magician - fail to come alive like some of the other lands in his books.

There you have it. For a while in the mid-1990s, with The Empire Trilogy and the better Serpentwar books, it looked like Feist was shaping up to be a possible real contender, but then he blew it spectacularly and has never really recovered. He's easy to read and has some good ideas, but has brought very little new to the table. I'd be tempted to say to read up to Rage of a Demon King, as all of those books are enjoyable on some level, but only Honoured Enemy rises above the dross that he's published since.
Visit The Wertzone for reviews of SF&F books, DVDs and computer games!


"Try standing out in a winter storm all night and see how tough you are. Start with that. Then go into a bar and pick a fight and see how tough you are. And then go home and break crockery over your head. Start with those three and you'll be good to go."
- Bruce Campbell on how to be as cool as he is
0

#29 User is offline   polishgenius 

  • Heart of Courage
  • Group: LHTEC
  • Posts: 5,322
  • Joined: 16-June 05

Posted 15 May 2007 - 08:23 PM

Taking on that post of Wert's, it reminds me of by far the most frustrating thing about Feist - he shows glimpses of being absolutely spectacular, and you can't help but feel that if he took as much care with everything else as he clearly did with Magician and the Empire trilogy he'd be one of the leading lights of epic fantasy rather than a neat aside. He has a neat way with his imagery, I really vividly imagine his locations, more so than most series. Also, some scenes really do stick in the memory, even from his less good books. For example:
Pug's trial on the tower in Magician.
Pug in the arena in Magician.
The whole scene in the eternal garden thing in The Darkness at Sethanon.
Some of (I can't remember his name)'s scenes from the Empire trilogy, the assasin guy. An actual convincing realistic assassin, who does things as they'd probably have been done.
There's also some ringing from Serpentwar, but I haven't read it for donkey's, so I can't recall them in detail. I probably will reread it at some point.

And he does do a good battle scene when he can be bothered, like Wert says.
I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you.
0

#30 User is offline   Astra 

  • Sony Reader PRS-650
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,064
  • Joined: 06-March 06
  • Location:UK

Posted 15 May 2007 - 08:41 PM

Could not get through Empire. Thought it was very borring and....not intersting? I read only the first book and stopped then. It was the last book by Feist I have read.
Only Two Things Are Infinite, The Universe and Human Stupidity, and I'm Not Sure About The Former.
Albert Einstein
0

#31 User is offline   paladin 

  • House Knight
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,518
  • Joined: 23-February 07

Posted 15 May 2007 - 08:54 PM

One of the things in the preface/intro for the first talon novel was Feist mentioning that his heart really wasn't into it anymore. He did say that he felt reenergized, but I'm sure that that can only go so far.
0

#32 User is offline   Varunwe 

  • Lieutenant
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 132
  • Joined: 28-November 06
  • Location:The Vortex
  • Interests:Larp, reading, watching tv

Posted 17 May 2007 - 12:46 PM

Quote

Pug's parents are irrelevant menial labourers who died when he was young. They weren't anyone important at all.


That surprised me most in Magician. I was expecting his parents to have been important sorcerors/king and queen or something, just like your average fantasy orphan.

Quote

Armengar is one of the better sieges in fantasy history


The battle at Sethanon paled in comparison. I also liked that Guy wasn't as bad as we were led to believe in the two previous books.
0

#33 User is offline   GardenGnome 

  • Emperor
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 947
  • Joined: 31-May 06

Posted 17 May 2007 - 04:27 PM

stone monkey;184901 said:

Whatever you do, never -and I really do mean never - read Rise of a Merchant Prince. If somebody recommends that you do so; don't walk, run away from them as fast as your legs can carry you (Or obtain some sort of hypersonic transport, if you're able). I'd also advise that you be screaming at the top of you lungs as you do this.

To be on the safe side.
Actually, I find Rise of a Merchant Prince to be the best of Serpentwar. I really enjoyed it, as it focused on the morally dubious Roo, instead of the ever-good Erik. Also, I liked how it wasn't constantly focused on the actual Serpentwar, but instead had the Serpentwar as a sort of background force. Good stuff.
0

#34 User is offline   Coco with marshmallows 

  • DIIIIIIIIIIVVVEEEEE
  • Group: LHTEC
  • Posts: 2,115
  • Joined: 26-October 05

Posted 17 May 2007 - 04:38 PM

to be honest, rise of a merchant prince reminded me a lot of the House of Niccolo series by Dorothy Dunnet. A fantasy version, obviously.

Actually one of the more innovative ideas for a fantasy book i've ever read, which was particularly surprising as it came from the pen of Feist. But it could have been a lot better.
meh. Link was dead :(
0

#35 User is offline   Werthead 

  • Ascendant
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Joined: 14-November 05

Posted 20 May 2007 - 10:05 PM

Strangely topical that we should be talking about Feist now. He just signed a new six-book deal with HarperCollins worth several million $$$.
Visit The Wertzone for reviews of SF&F books, DVDs and computer games!


"Try standing out in a winter storm all night and see how tough you are. Start with that. Then go into a bar and pick a fight and see how tough you are. And then go home and break crockery over your head. Start with those three and you'll be good to go."
- Bruce Campbell on how to be as cool as he is
0

#36 User is offline   williamjm 

  • Sergeant
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 91
  • Joined: 08-May 05

Posted 21 May 2007 - 11:32 PM

Werthead;185516 said:

I'd be tempted to say to read up to Rage of a Demon King, as all of those books are enjoyable on some level, but only Honoured Enemy rises above the dross that he's published since.


I have read (almost) all the post-RoaDK books and while I still find them enjoyable I'd generally agree with Wert's advice unless you really like Feist. There are occasional good bits in the later books (Honoured Enemy is very good, Exile's Return is pretty good as well, Into a Dark Realm has some very good bits dealing with the Dasati and some truly awful bits with much of the rest of the book) but generally they're fun but frankly mediocre.

I still think Magician, A Darkness at Sethanon and Servant of the Empire at least are still very good books and most of the other early books were good - I'll have to agree with those defending Rise of a Merchant Prince, it was a refreshingly different plotline for a fantasy.
0

#37 User is offline   Optimus Prime 

  • Daylight Oblivion
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,425
  • Joined: 22-March 07
  • Location:San Diego, California
  • Interests:Ranting and Raving. Being the biggest Liberal on this forum. Arguing with Cold Iron (and winning). Writing (struggling right now), reading, Georgia Bulldog FOOTBALL!<br /><br />And the lades, of course, always the ladies ;)

Posted 02 June 2007 - 04:57 AM

I agree, Feist has gone downhill...he follows the same basic plot in every "series"

Part 1----Young...seemingly unordinary young boys become ensnared in political and magical plots
Part 2----These boys *suprise!* have either special skills or that uncanny ability to succeed in difficult situations!
Part 3----Pug
Part 4----Some dastardly enemy who is just a bad dude...but not bad enough to defeat Pug or Tomas
--------------I mean...come on...Everyone should just leave Elves out of their story.....leave them for LOTR
Part 5----OH MY GOD!!! THE HEROES DISCOVER THE PLOT JUST IN TIME between bouts of swordsmanship and sleeping with buxom women

Epilogue...a threat lingers....ooooooooooooooooooo!
0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users