[Ivan the terrible]

Heya

Havn't posted in a while, probly cause i havn't reread the books in months...but am now half way through BH again. Was curious, does anyone think that Corabbs faith in Leoman was lucky?
And if so, is it perhaps a cynical derision of uneducated certainty? Accordingly what does it mean when his faith is shattered? Is this another stroke of luck?

Is enlightenment lucky...ignorance is bliss??

This enviable state of grace is as we know contrasted by a plethora of characters whose intellects reach a godly level, in fact some are gods. Is omniscience a curse or a blessing?

In wu knowledge tends to equal pathos as seen in the case of Karsa...is Corabb better off now or then?

Seems to be a theme that permeates the novels...any thoughts?

[spiralx]

One thought - omniscience is certainly not something that Wu's gods (or any other characters) are possessed with. They're often far more ignorant than any normal character

[Sir Thursday]

Hmm...I don't really think that everything Corabb does is lucky - Oponn's blessing gets him out of some tight spots, but I don't think Oponn can affect the greater flow of Corabb's life. If anything, Corabb's following of Leoman is not lucky, but rather the price that he pays in return for his luck. The twins need someone in that position or they wouldn't have blessed him, but obviously what they want him for is not particularly pleasant...


Sir Thursday

[Abyss]

It certainly seems that by the time we see him in HoC, Oponn is already messing with Corabb.

I wonder if perhaps their reasoning was to have someone close to Shaik, or Leoman, because in most other respects, Corabb is a fairly C-level character. As we saw with Cutter, the effects of Oponn's favour seem to be mostly avoiding sure death.

Then again, maybe Oponn has a master plan in mind and the MAIN purpose was to have an agent in place in Tavore's army.

Which makes me wonder whether the QoD was trying to keep him out of that, but got Dunsparrow instead.

- Abyss, ate a four-leaf clover once.

[Mael]

Sir Thursday;170046 said:

Hmm...I don't really think that everything Corabb does is lucky

Define lucky? Remember that Oponn has two aspects. Right now it seems like Corabb is the recipient of the ladies pull. How long that lasts depends on how long keeping Corabb alive suits Oponn's purposes. Oponn's luck can go from pull to push in an instant, usually the worst instance imaginable...

Quote

Then again, maybe Oponn has a master plan in mind and the MAIN purpose was to have an agent in place in Tavore's army.

this is most likely IMO.

[BridgeBurner]

Mael;170067 said:

this is most likely IMO.

I really doubt that. First, Oponn are too whimsy to even start a master plan. They just like to wreck as much havoc as they can whenever the possibility arises.

Second, manipulating things around Y'ghatan so that Corabb would be invited into Tavore's army is really beyond Oponn, IMO. The process with Leoman/Dunsparrow/Corabb doesn't seem like how Oponn work at all; It just takes too long...

The only one I could see managing that would be ST who, in tBH, got rid of Oponn in a side thought/action...

[Aptorian]

If Oponn is indeed bound by their own aspect, luck, which works with impulse, it would indeed seem strange for the two to plan out complicated scenarios, thinking of every eventuality instead of just acting and waiting for the results.

[Abyss]

But we do know that Oponn was involved in something that REALLy pissed Rake off (possibly a Chaining - not sure, anyone, anyone, Vaiski?), Darujhistan via Paran and Cutter, and Malaz Island, plus Corabb was at Shaik's camp when the whole Raraku awakens thing went down, so they show a tendency to become involved in major events. Not necessarily on anyone's side, but even so, there they were.

- Abyss, wants to win the lottery.

[Dolorous Menhir]

More likely they just pick a favourite and play around with events that happen to him. I doubt they plan ahead, they just meddle with things as they come up.

[BridgeBurner]

Abyss;170099 said:

But we do know that Oponn was involved in something that REALLy pissed Rake off (possibly a Chaining - not sure, anyone, anyone, Vaiski?), Darujhistan via Paran and Cutter, and Malaz Island, plus Corabb was at Shaik's camp when the whole Raraku awakens thing went down, so they show a tendency to become involved in major events. Not necessarily on anyone's side, but even so, there they were.

- Abyss, wants to win the lottery.

Based on that, one could argue that Oponn like to piss off the Malazan Empire and possibly ST...

[Abyss]

BridgeBurner;170108 said:

Based on that, one could argue that Oponn like to piss off the Malazan Empire and possibly ST...

Could be wrong, but wasn't that hinted at more than once in GotM?

At a minimum Rope taking up Chance when Paran discarded it doesn't suggest warm fuzzy feelings.

- Abyss, notes they're always after me lucky charms.

[BridgeBurner]

Abyss;170115 said:

Could be wrong, but wasn't that hinted at more than once in GotM?

At a minimum Rope taking up Chance when Paran discarded it doesn't suggest warm fuzzy feelings.

- Abyss, notes they're always after me lucky charms.

True, but it could have been a GoTM'ism there.

ST's payback in tBH could say otherwise though

[Dark Mac]

Mael;170067 said:

Define lucky? Remember that Oponn has two aspects. Right now it seems like Corabb is the recipient of the ladies pull. How long that lasts depends on how long keeping Corabb alive suits Oponn's purposes. Oponn's luck can go from pull to push in an instant, usually the worst instance imaginable...

As I recall, Corabb was chosen by the Lady, not by Oponn. Which would imply that the two might not be as united as we think?

[Ivan the terrible]

Which we lead me to question Corabb's status...as fortunate recipient.

[Veilside]

Abyss;170115 said:

Could be wrong, but wasn't that hinted at more than once in GotM?

At a minimum Rope taking up Chance when Paran discarded it doesn't suggest warm fuzzy feelings.

- Abyss, notes they're always after me lucky charms.

That could be just because Cottilion was pissed off with them bringing Paran back from the dead after he'd just killed him.

[Mael]

Dark Mac;170159 said:

As I recall, Corabb was chosen by the Lady, not by Oponn. Which would imply that the two might not be as united as we think?

ummm...the lady is Oponn. Both the Lad and the Lady are the 2 aspects of Oponn. As to whether or not they agree is up for debate.

I don't see Oponn's selecting Corabb as part of any master plan but rather a matter of convenience or luck. Grab somone smack dab in the middle of the most action and give him the odd push or pull in an attempt to benefit your motives. Not genius, just a gamble with a few adjustments along the way.

[Ivan the terrible]

I wasn't really speculating...just analyzing. If Corabb's burgeoning intelligent sceptical outlook brings him pain and hardship i wouldn't be suprised. Thus the point was that His association with good luck corresponding to his unadulterated faith in Leoman, might be a comment on the virtues of ignorance.

As seen with Karsa's growth of understanding we are led to believe that this knowledge is a good thing. I think it will be interesting to see how Corabb and indeed Karsa develops in light of this understanding.

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

Corabb's blinding faith in Leoman is explained in HoC; Leoman bought him from when he was close to death (from Gral traders, or something of the sort) and nursed him back to life. I don't think Oponn is involved at all; he just grew to love the leader of men who saved his life. Which is probably why he turned a blind eye; he viewed Leoman's idiosyncrasies as the traits of a genius, instead of as the traits of a man who only cared for himself.

[Abyss]

Put it this way: Oponn's selection of Crokus and Paran were hardly random, so it's unlikely Corabb was.

Plus, take a look past the inherent rediculousness of his drug trips and near escapes, and Corabb is a steady, reliable soldier who Leoman trusted at his back more than once, including to get the message thru in HoC. And he stood just fine with the Bonehunters at the Malaz City pier during the riot.

- Abyss, thinks great things are ahead for Corabb, or possibly just sex with Smiles...

[BridgeBurner]

Abyss;170950 said:

Put it this way: Oponn's selection of Crokus and Paran were hardly random, so it's unlikely Corabb was.

They were.

Oponn couldn't predict Paran dying or Crokus running for his life on the roofs. Therefore them selecting both is a random act, although opportunistic.

Same goes with Corabb.