[Dragnipur]

Foolishly I left my MOI at home when I came back to uni so I can't give an exact quote (luckily I finished it!). Anyway.

When Dujek and Whiskeyjack had their last conversation before Dujek split off to go to Raraku he said something about 'reversing the command structure'.

I can't remember it very well but it gave off the impression that Lassen had demoted some of he most skilled fighters not out of cowardice but to protect them. He said that she did it in preperation for Shadowthrone's initial move, such as assassinating her then most skilled fighters?

I was just wondering if anyone else had interpreted this in the same way, or had any thoughts to add?

[Aptorian]

Everything Laseen does is a mystery. She's either a bumbling fool or so clever no one understands her actions.

It seems that she indeed reversed the command structure of the armies but the only reversal I can recall is Dujek and WJ. There can be two reasons.

A: She forsaw some ellaborate scheme from ST or someone else side that apparently could only be adressed by intelligent officers as sergents... which seems stupid. How did she imagine that making WJ a sergent, was going to save her from Sorry ,whom she didnt even know existed when she did it?

B: She was worried about betrayal. She wanted WJ and The BBs, which were the Emperors favorites, dead and gone because she feared them turning on her along with the rest of the army. Something we hear is definently an option in GotM.

To be honest I like explanation B a lot more than the silly one about using WJ as a back-up and trying to protect the BBs by putting them under Pale.

I liked the cruel, manipulative impression we got of Tay and the Empress in GotM more than the picture of weakminded wellmeaning leaders we have later.

[Dragnipur]

I wasn't saying she did it to protect herself, but if ST killed her armies better leaders it would leave the ME in a pretty unfortunate situation. Scenario B does sound better yes, but you can't just ignore that conversation. Especially as it was voiced by the two men it concerns the most!

[Dolorous Menhir]

Ha, I saw the title of this and thought it would be about his demotion to a dead person.

Laseen's reasoning for busting WJ to Sergeant seemed to be that he would be more effective on the ground at the bottom of the chain of command than as a Fist or High Fist. Can't really say I follow that, but Laseen isn't noted for her sensible and obvious strategic moves.

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

Don't forget about Stormy and Gesler; there are remaining Old Guard warriors who have also been shot down to the bottom of the ranks...

[Aptorian]

Ah, but if DG is any proof, that was because they were devoted to Feners cult which was outlawed.

That and the fact that they aren't very good at dicipline

[Dolorous Menhir]

You can kind of see what Laseen was meaning when she put Whiskeyjack on the frontlines of the Genebackan campaign as a sergeant.

But Gesler & Stormy were stuck in a Seven Cities backwater doing nothing. Plus they were Cartheron Crust's subordinates, and Laseen probably wouldn't trust people associated with the Crusts.

Then again, maybe Gesler was there to be personally fighting the rebellion, but I think that's a stretch. I think they just enjoyed hitting their superiors more than the typical career officer.

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

Haha yes, the two of them have a lovable (for the reader) hate for higher authority. At least Urko had interests!

[No-God]

Aptorian;160632 said:

Everything Laseen does is a mystery. She's either a bumbling fool or so clever no one understands her actions.

It seems that she indeed reversed the command structure of the armies but the only reversal I can recall is Dujek and WJ. There can be two reasons.

A: She forsaw some ellaborate scheme from ST or someone else side that apparently could only be adressed by intelligent officers as sergents... which seems stupid. How did she imagine that making WJ a sergent, was going to save her from Sorry ,whom she didnt even know existed when she did it?

B: She was worried about betrayal. She wanted WJ and The BBs, which were the Emperors favorites, dead and gone because she feared them turning on her along with the rest of the army. Something we hear is definently an option in GotM.

To be honest I like explanation B a lot more than the silly one about using WJ as a back-up and trying to protect the BBs by putting them under Pale.

I liked the cruel, manipulative impression we got of Tay and the Empress in GotM more than the picture of weakminded wellmeaning leaders we have later.

It's hard to say. I think there's more to it, and we'll eventually learn it.

[Battalion]

Dolorous Menhir;160745 said:

You can kind of see what Laseen was meaning when she put Whiskeyjack on the frontlines of the Genebackan campaign as a sergeant.

But Gesler & Stormy were stuck in a Seven Cities backwater doing nothing. Plus they were Cartheron Crust's subordinates, and Laseen probably wouldn't trust people associated with the Crusts.

Then again, maybe Gesler was there to be personally fighting the rebellion, but I think that's a stretch. I think they just enjoyed hitting their superiors more than the typical career officer.

What was Gesler's old rank? Stormy was an adjutant, right? So he was someones right hand, but I thought it to be Gelser's. Were they both working under Cartheron?

[Waylander]

I thought Adjutant was the male version of Adjuct. That would have made him the right hand of the emporer, and higher in rank than both of the crust brothers. Indeed higher in rank than Gesler and Whiskyjack too.

[Aptorian]

There's no way in hell Gesler or Stormy were working at the top of the empires hierachy... it's just so unlikely when you see how they work

Stormy and Gesler were members of Feners cult back before The Empress outlawed the cult in the military. They were also a part of Dassems loyal guard which I believe was called "The first Sword".

[Dolorous Menhir]

I can't remember what Gesler's old rank was - captain?

"Adjutant" seems more along the lines of an aide to a High Fist, or something like that. The words are similar, I think that's because they have a similar function - the Adjunct is the immediate subordinate of the Empress, and the Adjutant is the deputy to a Fist, say. I think Stormy may have been an aide for the Crust brothers.

I'm now a bit dubious on which Crust brother Gesler & Stormy were associated with - Urko or Cartheron? They were both High Fists in Aren, so maybe they worked for them both?

[ObsoleteResolve]

Personally, I think she's much, much smarter than the "vindictive (female dog)" stereotype gives her credit for-- I'm more in line with her being as she's revealed in her conversation with Kallam (damn, took me a minute to remember his name: I REALLY need to reread the series! I bought MoI and HoC in trade paperback and ain't read 'em (had already read'em twice in UK MMPB :-D)) at the end of DhG. There's no way, if she was the way she's portrayed in GotM, that she could stay in power, muchless overthrow Kellanved (GODDAMN! I couldn't remember his name! Had to search! After The Naked God: Part 2 Faith is done it's reread, I'm rereading the series!) who was, from everything I've seen of him as Emperor (as opposed to Shadowthrone-- he seems to be a lil bit unhinged nowadays, or he just plays the part on TV), to have been a MOST formidable figure of a quite unique genius.

Even if he was becoming unhinged later in his mortality, there's no WAY that just some psycho, manipulative (female dog) could've taken him down. Look at the way she knows what Kallam is doing and planning -- she trumps his every single move.

[Battalion]

Hetan;161032 said:

Gesler's uniform showed that he had once been a sergeant.

Stormy was an adjutant - according to the dictionary that's

• Abbr. Adj. or Adjt. A staff officer who helps a commanding officer with administrative affairs.
  
• An assistant.

They may have been part of Dassem's guard, but should not be confused with his "Sword" or personal fighting elite guard

Yeah, it shows that he was once a sergeant in DG, when Kulp tells him to stop walking backwards, but I think he must have been of higher rank in the past. Stormy can't have been higher than him.

Quote

Stormy and Gesler were members of Feners cult back before The Empress outlawed the cult in the military. They were also a part of Dassems loyal guard which I believe was called "The first Sword".

I don't remember them being metioned as being in the First Sword, but I might be wrong. They were Old Guard, beyond that I'm not sure how much has been told.

[Gibby]

Back to the original reason for this post...Laseen "reversing" the command structure....Dujek told Whiskeyjack she did this so that her most capable leaders would "be there" when the crap hit the fan. Dujek surmised that Laseen knew something bad was going to happen and needed people in certain places--if they hadn't been demoted, they would have been killed in the purges. Also, remember the implication that Crust and some other old Malazan leaders weren't actually purged, but disappeared under mysterious circumstances (i.e. no bodies were ever found, so they are still out there somewhere--Laseen is not as evel as we thought, she just wants to appear ruthless. I just finished MoI, so I assume some of them will appear later).

[ch'arlz]

Gibby;227336 said:

I just finished MoI, so I assume some of them will appear later).

Yes! On to DG!