[worry]

Thanks. That Wiki has some good Scooby Doo crossover information. So the answer to my questions are: she's a Wonder Woman-specific villain, so she's been underserved in the same way Wonder Woman has been, and she's not a particularly compelling villain anyway?

[polishgenius]

Someone really really needs to sit down and concentrate and give Wonder Woman a proper fucking background of supporting characters and villains. Because she's an awesome character, yet her supporting structures are shite. I realise there have been attempts to do this down the years, but none of them seem to have worked, even if the actual comics are good (like Azarello's run).



They should let me do it. I'd make her an awesome mythos. First order of business: Steve Trevor Must Die!

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 18 January 2017 - 08:27 PM

[amphibian]

death rattle, on 18 January 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Thanks. That Wiki has some good Scooby Doo crossover information. So the answer to my questions are: she's a Wonder Woman-specific villain, so she's been underserved in the same way Wonder Woman has been, and she's not a particularly compelling villain anyway?

She's not compelling in the way that the Greek gods and demi-gods are. Most of the Wonder Woman villains are weak in that sense.

Part of it is that I think there's not a whole lot of definite things that Wonder Woman stands for beyond "justice" and "protect the island of ladies", so it's hard to have a villain negate this or that tenet of her philosophy or general approach.

Part of this is that the title hasn't really been handed to a superstar writer who was willing to take her outside the Greek mythologies and the "past times". Azzarello spent a ton of time with the gods and demigods for a widely acclaimed three year run. I think Gail Simone spent a lot of time in the Nazi era.

I haven't paid much attention to Rucka's run, but he's changed some of the character for the better by making her at least bi-sexual (more accurately, "queer"; not that sexuality is the only way to drive narrative, but at least it opens up a certain amount of tension and backstory on Themyscira).

The potential is there for Wonder Woman to have a cast of villains and grey area characters to rival that of Superman. The writers have to be talented and given the green light in the ways that Simone, Azzarello, and Rucka are.

[PLUGO]

polishgenius, on 18 January 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

Someone really really needs to sit down and concentrate and give Wonder Woman a proper fucking background of supporting characters and villains. Because she's an awesome character, yet her supporting structures are shite. I realise there have been attempts to do this down the years, but none of them seem to have worked, even if the actual comics are good (like Azarello's run).

I enjoyed much of the the Brian Azzarello + Cliff Chang Wonder Woman series. Maybe it ran a little long and suffered from the occasional fill-in artist. It's been replaced with another retelling of her origin "Rebirth" by Greg Rukka and amazing art by Nicoli Scott which is also attempting to reinvigorate The Cheetah as well.

Grant Morrison's "Wonder Woman: Earth One," was pretty fun and also gorgeous.

This post has been edited by PLUGO: 19 January 2017 - 12:16 AM

[polishgenius]

amphibian, on 18 January 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

Part of this is that the title hasn't really been handed to a superstar writer who was willing to take her outside the Greek mythologies and the "past times". Azzarello spent a ton of time with the gods and demigods for a widely acclaimed three year run. I think Gail Simone spent a lot of time in the Nazi era.

While modern figures in her story (that aren't Steve Fucking Trevor) are a must, I'd also like to see her be a sort of figurehead to the myth-side of DC generally and not just the Greeks. Have one of her opponents be Baba Yaga. Bring King Arthur (or possibly Lancelot or someone) into the frame.

[amphibian]

polishgenius, on 19 January 2017 - 07:57 PM, said:

While modern figures in her story (that aren't Steve Fucking Trevor) are a must, I'd also like to see her be a sort of figurehead to the myth-side of DC generally and not just the Greeks. Have one of her opponents be Baba Yaga. Bring King Arthur (or possibly Lancelot or someone) into the frame.

Having her be magical threat oriented makes a decent amount of sense. She's already 75% magical in her being and the stuff she has.

[Abyss]

BLACK SCIENCE tpb vol 5.
Y'know, most comic writers would be content to work a single major game changer holy shit plot point into a six issue set.
Fucking Remender.




As a related point, humble bundle has an Image comics bundle up that includes a whole lot of e-tpb goodness (EAST of WEST vols 1 and 2, BLACK SCIENCE vol 1, SAGA mega collection vol 1, DESCENDER vols 1 and 2, WICKED AND DIVINE vol 1, MONSTRESS #1 66pg ed., more...) for the usual stupid low price.

Yes, there is a bunch of crap and #1s that are just there are promos, but even so, the sheer mass of collected ed. goodness is pretty awesome. If you've been considering any of the series and don't need your pretty pictures in dead tree format, it's a great deal.

[Abyss]

Just finished SLEEPER seasons 1 and 2 and Wow, that is some dark, dark ugly comic Brubaker wrote there.

Nicely written espionage for the original version of the Wildstorm universe. Takes ambiguous characters and shades of grey heroes and villains to an ugly place. Insane action.


Eventually becomes hard to sympathize with any of the characters, but by then it's down to needing to see how the thing will end.


Can totally see Bru refining his writing for his jump to bigger characters later on.


Worth a read.

[JPK]

I just caught up to you on Black Science Abyss. Vol 5 went from dark to "oh holy hell that's fucked. "

Spoiler

I can't wait to see how Grant gets out of this.

Also, I can't believe I'm about to admit this, but Kadir is the most compelling character in this to me at this point. He's ambitious and willing to sacrifice certain morals to get the thing (Sara) that he wants, but he clearly has his lines that he isn't really willing to cross. I still think he has something up his sleeve where Mr. Block is concerned.

I really hope that we get at least a glimpse of Nate in vol 6.

Finally, you just have to know that His Excellent Cuddliness Har'logh The Defiler will be making another appearance in the near future.

Now that I'm caught up on that one Planetary is up next.

[Abyss]

JPK, on 07 February 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

I just caught up to you on Black Science Abyss. Vol 5 went from dark to "oh holy hell that's fucked. "

Spoiler

I can't wait to see how Grant gets out of this.

Also, I can't believe I'm about to admit this, but Kadir is the most compelling character in this to me at this point. He's ambitious and willing to sacrifice certain morals to get the thing (Sara) that he wants, but he clearly has his lines that he isn't really willing to cross. I still think he has something up his sleeve where Mr. Block is concerned.

I really hope that we get at least a glimpse of Nate in vol 6.

Finally, you just have to know that His Excellent Cuddliness Har'logh The Defiler will be making another appearance in the near future.

So fucked. The characters are SO fucked.

Spoiler

...in a good way, but geez, Grant... debrained and medicated in an asylum while Block gets to cause all kinds of trouble with the Pillar tech. Damn. That was a level of fucked i was not expecting at all.

Kadir... i dunno, i liked him as the ambiguous corporate stooge who was as much Grants foil and antagonist as victim, but this new stage is so pathetic on every level that i 'lost respect' for the character.

I will love it however, if that beating at the end was a way form him to slip Grant a lockpick or something.

Given what his sister got up to, i am also very curious what Nate will be up to when we eventually see him, tho i suspect we may get a 'older toughened up cyborg Nate with guns and sword gates in and saves the day and tries to kill Grant' moment, just because.

And His Excellent Cuddliness Har'logh The Defiler deserves a spin-off series.

Quote

Now that I'm caught up on that one Planetary is up next.

You are in for SO MUCH COMIC GOODNESS.

[JPK]

I sat down with Vol 1 after the wife went to bed with the intention of reading the first 2 issues. I binged the whole damn trade. Holy hell. I'm really having to resist jumping straight into Vol 2.

BTW, is it just me or does Ellis have a thing for the Kaiju?

This post has been edited by JPK: 09 February 2017 - 06:37 AM

[amphibian]

Kaiju are awesome. Ellis is being a normal person in this.

[Abyss]

JPK, on 09 February 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:

I sat down with Vol 1 after the wife went to bed with the intention of reading the first 2 issues. I binged the whole damn trade. Holy hell. I'm really having to resist jumping straight into Vol 2.

BTW, is it just me or does Ellis have a thing for the Kaiju?

amphibian, on 09 February 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

Kaiju are awesome. Ellis is being a normal person in this.

TOKYO STORM WARNING.
You can practically see him jumping up and down in his seat with glee as he wrote the scripts for the art team to draw.

[QuickTidal]

JPK, on 09 February 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:

I sat down with Vol 1 after the wife went to bed with the intention of reading the first 2 issues. I binged the whole damn trade. Holy hell. I'm really having to resist jumping straight into Vol 2.

The whole series will read like that. It's one great thing after another throughout the whole run. I envy you for reading it for the first time.

[JPK]

amphibian, on 09 February 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

Kaiju are awesome. Ellis is being a normal person in this.

Oh, it wasn't a complaint. Though I admit I didn't pick up on what was happening on the island at first. It took King Ghidorah after Mothra for it to sink in.

I wouldn't necessarily say Ellis' kaiju fascination is entirely normal though. I have my wife reading Crooked Little Vein and she just finished a particular chapter a couple nights ago. I didn't warn her that that was coming. Her reaction was priceless.

[Abyss]

JPK, on 09 February 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

amphibian, on 09 February 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

Kaiju are awesome. Ellis is being a normal person in this.

Oh, it wasn't a complaint. Though I admit I didn't pick up on what was happening on the island at first. It took King Ghidorah after Mothra for it to sink in.

I wouldn't necessarily say Ellis' kaiju fascination is entirely normal though. I have my wife reading Crooked Little Vein and she just finished a particular chapter a couple nights ago. I didn't warn her that that was coming. Her reaction was priceless.

The world needs more Godzilla Bukkake.

[JPK]

I've finished Vol 2 tonight now as well. I really loved the story about the Atomic Woman in this collection. The identity of The Fourth Man wasn't too hard to guess though.

Also, a distinct lack of Island Zero and the Kaiju in this one. I'm a bit saddened by that.

Vol 3, here I come!

[JPK]

Back on the MarvelMeth now too. I hopped back to read the Hickman FF run that you've all spoke so highly of. Just making sure, but it starts with Reed finding the Council, right? Issue 570?

[Abyss]

JPK, on 10 February 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

Back on the MarvelMeth now too. I hopped back to read the Hickman FF run that you've all spoke so highly of. Just making sure, but it starts with Reed finding the Council, right? Issue 570?

Yep.
Here, found this elseforum...

Quote

F4 vol 1 #570-574

F4 vol 2 #575-578

F4 vol 3 #579-582

F4 vol 4 #583-588

FF vol 1 #1-5

FF vol 2 #6-11

F4 vol 5 #600-604

FF vol 3 #12-16 (events take place during F4 vol 5)

FF vol 4 #17-23

F4 vol 6 #605.1, 605-611

...recommend reading Spider-Man #658,659,660,680&681

[T77]

There's a Warren Ellis sale on Comixolgy. I read and loved Planetary, except for Crossing Worlds - which I have not read. Any opinions on Stormwatch and The Authority? Transmetropolitan is also on sale, but that is on Hoopla.

This post has been edited by T77: 15 February 2017 - 04:17 PM