[Urko Crust]

it is said in HoC that a teblor is an adult after eighty years. The impression i got was that karsa was considered an adult so this book places him at 80+ years old.
In DG when Leoman is introducing "toblakai" to Kalam he says that karsa is seventeen summers old, and during the fighting with the redblades he is described as the toblakai youth.

On the karsa's journey it seemed to me that karsa killed considerably more than 41 humans especially if you count all the ones he killed after he escaped, yet leoman states that Toblakai has killed fortyone people in his short life.

I am going to take the HoC version, but does anyone have an explanation for the descrepancy.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Urko Crust;132047 said:

I am going to take the HoC version, but does anyone have an explanation for the descrepancy.

Simple, SE changed his mind about Karsa when he wrote HoC. Or he forgot what he'd already said.

It's one of the two.

[lopper]

dog years? is there not a certain chinese "year of the rabbit" or what not happending in this series? i recall it from when no hands and felisin first met-- but i would guess its a mistake or a change of mind as well

[Omras Ghum]

i got the impression from HOC that karsa is a end-teenager (in human terms 17 or 18 years old) - if he looks like that to leoman and has not talked much to him (leoman) about his past then leoman, him being a human, would use human terms to describe karsa and if he doesn't know about karsas backstory the 41 kills could just only be the ones leoman knows about...

also take into account that almost 80 years af living would make karsa rather experienced at life compared to a 17 years old human - although both are teenagers to their own kind; so karsa would give the impression (to us mere humans) of being more grown-up than we would expect from a teen...

[Dolorous Menhir]

I don't think we can credibly argue that Teblor years are not the same as human years. If HoC gives Karsa's age as ~80 years, then he is actually 80 years old. Teblor live on the same world as humans, even the same continent. They must have the same definition of year.

Remember, three generations of Teblor (from Pahlk the grandfather to Karsa) covered a very large period of human development among the Nathii, from the lone farm of Pahlk's story to the major city the three Teblor assaulted. Nathii records of Pahlk's visit were either dim or just outside living memory, I forget which.

And presumably Teblor just mature very slowly, which is why Karsa was still regarded as a young adult despite his very large age in human terms. They aren't human after all.

As for Leoman giving his age as ~14 in DG (I forget the exact age, but it was low teens) I like to think that Karsa told him he was a "Teblor youth" and Leoman then assumed he was comparable in age to a human youth - a teenager. But more likely it's just a discrepancy, especially when you consider that the kill count Leoman ascribes to Karsa is far lower than just the on-screen kills we see in book one of HoC.

[Illuyankas]

Leoman says 17, by the way. And I just took it as kills Leoman had personally seen.

[Omras Ghum]

@ dolorous: i didn't say that i thaught teblor years different from human years - they are the same alright - i wanted to point out that karsa, having lived for about 80 years would appear rather mature to the human reader of the books but could still be considered a teen by his own kind (because urko said in the beginning of the thread that he got the impression of karsa being an adult - and he is right in human terms, teblor terms just differ...)

aside from the age 14... i completely agree with the rest of your post and with illuyankas' as well.

[Dolorous Menhir]

It was the poster above you who suggested Teblor years were shorter than human years, Omras Ghum, I wasn't saying you did.

He also mentions "the year of the rabbit" but I've got no idea what he's on about there.

lopper;132079 said:

dog years? is there not a certain chinese "year of the rabbit" or what not happending in this series? i recall it from when no hands and felisin first met-- but i would guess its a mistake or a change of mind as well

[Omras Ghum]

i'm sorry, dolorous.

so it is safe to says we agree, is it not?

[Urko Crust]

Omras Ghum;132098 said:

@ dolorous: i didn't say that i thaught teblor years different from human years - they are the same alright - i wanted to point out that karsa, having lived for about 80 years would appear rather mature to the human reader of the books but could still be considered a teen by his own kind (because urko said in the beginning of the thread that he got the impression of karsa being an adult - and he is right in human terms, teblor terms just differ...)

aside from the age 14... i completely agree with the rest of your post and with illuyankas' as well.

What i meant was that karsa was consisered an adult by the rest of the tribe and the teblor in the slave pits. i agree with dolouros, teblor mature more slowly, this is also seen elsewhere.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Omras Ghum;132103 said:

i'm sorry, dolorous.

so it is safe to says we agree, is it not?

It is.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I go with the dog years theory. Karsa is about eighty, but looks like a teenager/young adult.

[Nexdominus]

Leoman brags about how good he is at making up stories and readily admits that he makes up what he doesn't know about Karsa. I'm too lazy to get the exact quote but remember laughing when I read it.

[CoconutBackwards]

Dolorous Menhir, on 07 November 2006 - 06:26 PM, said:

Urko Crust;132047 said:

I am going to take the HoC version, but does anyone have an explanation for the descrepancy.

Simple, SE changed his mind about Karsa when he wrote HoC. Or he forgot what he'd already said.

It's one of the two.

This isn't a simple conclusion to come to imo.

[worry]

Leoman thought he was P.T. Barnum-ing up Karsa's reputation with that boast, but didn't know the half. And why would he?