[fan_83]

one third of the edur are magic users.. that means that one third of them can use magic.. but hte rest of them are like the rest of the populations.. there are strong users and weak users.. whats the one third figures means that the numbers of strong users are much much greater for the edur race than any other non elder race of the same numbers.. that makes the edur so scary..
and add in the number of demons that they can summon .. it seems possible for them to create an extra army..

regarding tays and rake: imagine a shower head that is set to broad spray and focused spray..

rake using broad spray method at pale.. pushed tays to his knees and nearly breaching tays defenses.. should rake switch over to focused spray.. tays would be dust

[Dark Mac]

Abyss;123566 said:

Iirc, we never saw a Letherii mage in MT do something as subtle as disguise themselves or cast shadows and illusions, things we've seen Malazan squad mages do a dozen times. Hold magic may just not work on such a 'micro' level.

When the Ceda traps the god the Edur were using, he uses illusions. IIRC, Tehol also mentions that a Letherii mage could be used to fix Shurq up as an alternative. Feather Witch's and the Ceda's travels are also on a fairly micro level.

On Tays vs. Rake: IIRC, Rake was defending all of Moon's Spawn, which is why he couldn't focus all of his effort on Tays. Likewise, however, some of Tays's effort was being used on his allies. The waves Rake launched were aimed at the mages, but Tays deflected them into the army.

[The Rope]

"The swift do not always win the race, nor the strong win the battle... for time and unforseen occurence befall [them] all..." raw power does not always beat smart power, and vice versa. there are no examples of one on one, so no way to know for sure... yet...

[Tremolo]

Dont you guys forget that the holds are there only because Gothos froze time in Lether? The holds are being usurped by the newer warrens. So Ceda was using a waning focus for the magic power he wielded and still challenged the Edur socerers' chaotic focus.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I miss the Ceda. Even though I love Trull, I hope he pays for murdering that nice old man.

[The Rope]

trull only did it because he was told - and that his own brother was sufferring. as you recall, trull didn't like it AT ALL... and was in too much shock to warn Brys - he was greatly saddened. It was those two acts - or rather an act and a LACK of action - that drove him to breaking away and being shorn.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I know Trull had good reasons (such as preventing the extinction of his race). Doesn't mean I forgive him for it.

[frank]

....nice old man????

I liked the guy to, but..hey, WAKE UP! How long do you think a nice old man would have lasted as ceda? And he was planning genocide. An option is to hide and fight later. It's not like the avridge Letheri are much worse off now than earlier. An the Letheri themselves as a people were never very nice.

The guy was probably even more brutal than my mother in law!

[Dolorous Menhir]

frank;125742 said:

....nice old man????

I liked the guy to, but..hey, WAKE UP! How long do you think a nice old man would have lasted as ceda? And he was planning genocide. An option is to hide and fight later. It's not like the avridge Letheri are much worse off now than earlier. An the Letheri themselves as a people were never very nice.

The guy was probably even more brutal than my mother in law!

So...the Ceda was supposed to run away, let his King, capital and nation fall and then...genocide the Edur anyway? I don't see how else he was supposed to defeat the Edur, except to take them head on as he did. And he was about to triumph too, standing alone.

The beauty of this situation was that the Ceda and Trull had no choice whatsoever.

I really hope there's more "2 years before MT" passages in Reaper's Gale, because it's possible we might get more Ceda scenes.

KaL;125745 said:

A nicer old man has never existed in the Malazan except maybe Tanos. Genocide of a race plagued by the Chained one is probably for the best.

Tanos? Who's that?

[Jheral]

I think he's referring to the Tanno Spiritwalkers. You know, like Kimloc.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Ok, thanks. Is it just me, or does SE alternate between "Tanno" and "Tano" when mentioning the spiritwalkers throughout the series? I always look at it and think it should have one less or one more "n".

[frank]

Yes, he should have run off from a nation and a king that didn't deserve him, but deserved what they got. And then he should have taken with him other "nice" people and joined with the opposition. It would look like a long shot, but we all know that the Edur is going down, so I guess it isn't such a long shot after all.
Mind you, I would have fried the grey bastards too, but then again I'm not a nice old man.

I'm more like my mother in law...not physicly that is

[Aptorian]

There are small hints from Brys or Kettle that the Ceda is capable of taking extreme actions, which he would have done if Kettle had proved more of a danger than she was. And yes he was preparing to crush the invading army.

But that doesn't mean that he's a coldharted magician. All the little discussions we hear between the Ceda and Brys shows us that he's mostly just an excentric scholar. A doddering old man hardly capable of taking care of himself.

The Ceda did what he had to do in the face of his whole peoples subjugation. Also I don't remember if the Ceda was actually going to kill every Edur or just the invading army at the Cities gates. In theory Trull could have thought that the crushing of the invasion, would be the death of his people, seeing as the Letherii would then have hunted down every last child and woman afterward.

[frank]

Nope, it would have killed them all. And missunderstand me correctly, I don't think the Ceda is a terrible person, but Erikson (I belive) knows and takes into consideration that any person in a position like the Cedas' would not last long or even get there if they were nice old men. Just like (and here's some political thoughts, but don't go there because it's just a way to make my point and the forum is for fun) in real life where any high ranking politician in a powerful nation is a basterd, cause he needs to be.

[Aptorian]

frank;126352 said:

in real life where any high ranking politician in a powerful nation is a basterd, cause he needs to be.

I completely agree with you, but I didn't sense any cruel streak in the Ceda... he was so sweet with those little glasses or the scene were he's stuck hanging a couple of feet off the cedance floor.

[frank]

Then I actually beleave that we agree. Well, who would have thought that. Keep up the good work

[amphibian]

Apt;126355 said:

I completely agree with you, but I didn't sense any cruel streak in the Ceda... he was so sweet with those little glasses or the scene were he's stuck hanging a couple of feet off the cedance floor.

I see no problems with a sweet old man possessing a mean streak a mile wide when a threat is made to those he holds dear.

Very few people get to be old by being all giggles and smiles. I'm sure the Ceda had to do some ruthless things to climb the mage hierarchy to reach his position as well as defend his kingdom. He seemed pretty up to speed on the internecine court gossip as well.

My impression of him was like a meaner version of Leonard of Quirm in the Discworld books - practically useless in the real world, all too deadly in the abstract.