[frank]

I've probably just missed something vital, but I'm still going to whine about it, and I'm going to do it right here!

What's up with this throne of shadow? Who sat the throne while the realm was whole. Wasn't there a "first runner up"? If it gives you such power, why didn't it help the first person occupying it? Was it used to comit the deeds which made the realm start to tear apart? Which realms got these kind of thrones, and why is this one so powerful?

And somewhat linked to this. Did ALL the powerhouss going for the throne get snuffed by my hero Rake and big, ugly mother in law lookalike Kil? What about all the evil henchmen (ordenary edur) living there. Had all the survivors gone to the Malazan realm. The same with the Andii; how many stayed behind? And do they have throne? If not...why not?

Now...butcher me.

[frank]

Thanks, but why does the throne of elder shadow have such power? The throne of Togg and Fanderly doesn't do much. Why didn't anyone make thrones of other realms? Is it made or is it an aspect of the realm? Is it linked to the fragment where it is hidden or all of them, and if all...how?

[The .303 bookworm]

Maknavox;121331 said:

There are 2 thrones. 1 the actual throne of ELDER shadow.
And there is a throne of meanas.

Both are real thrones with real power. Kelly/ammy has them both (the genious) but on which he actually sits is debatable.

Its also a interesting notion to have 2 gods of shadow. I love the day that would happen.

Shadow was ripped apart because of something Backstabbandary did. My main crazy theory is that he wanted to become the elder god of shadow, killed the edur royal line to become fathershadow and used that power to gain eldergod power. It backfired (either because shadow is not a real aspect) or you cant force a warren to make you a eldergod. but thats just a crazy theory. Stabby just did something weird to the warren.

Well its possible that some fractures (as there are many) still have edur in them. but we just dont know. But its save to say there are no large edur populations other then the one on Wu.

Andii might still inhabit Kurald galain. Some might even live in SD. But again. the main population/force is on WU

Only the liosan still only inhabit Kurald Thyrillan. I think there total head count is higher then the Andii and Edur combined. Since they have not encountered another race in eons.

Shadowthrone controls only the throne over his fraction of the shattered warren of Shadow (As well as the First throne of the T'lan Imass).
The Throne of the Elder warren as a WHOLE is in another fragment of the shattered Warren.

[fan_83]

The .303 bookworm;121360 said:

Shadowthrone controls only the throne over his fraction of the shattered warren of Shadow (As well as the First throne of the T'lan Imass).
The Throne of the Elder warren as a WHOLE is in another fragment of the shattered Warren.

wtf... ???

the elder warren of shadow.. is not a fragment of a shattered warren.. the elder warren of shadow when whole was the home of the edur.. but due to the action of scabby.. the warren was broken into pieces.. one of such larger fragments then became the warren of meanas while the other warren became home of the apocalypse the raraku piece...
another became the nascant.. the elder warren of shadow is not a fragment of another shattered warren..

please provide proof

[The .303 bookworm]

I meant the throne Shadowthrone has is in a fragment of Shadow, not that Shadow is part of another warren [Or that it was so prior to it's shattering].

I'm afraid that you misunderstood me.

[Obdigore]

The .303 bookworm;121367 said:

I meant the throne Shadowthrone has is in a fragment of Shadow, not that Shadow is part of another warren [Or that it was so prior to it's shattering].

I'm afraid that you misunderstood me.

No, the throne we SEE shadowthrone sitting on is in a fragment... The Actual throne of shadow's occupant (if there is one) is hinted about by Cot-boy when talking to the imprisoned dragons.

[fan_83]

meanas is jsut a big fragment of the original shadow warren.. i believe that if elder shadow was reunited, then meanas as we know it will disappear but another version will grow to take it place

[Mkvenna]

ok....what if shadowthrone was on one and the rope on the other.......sorry maybe for the crazy theroes thread

[Dark Mac]

Cotillion has suggested that ST's sitting on both thrones, in the conversation with the dragons (or was it the conversation with Edgewalker?). Nothing too crazy there.

[Abyss]

The 'original' Throne of KE was on Drift Avalii, guarded by Andarist and Rake's grandkids, then later by Traveller and some of ST's demons.

The Throne of Meanas is a different throne, probably (just my theory) a 'shadow' or echo of the original existing in the largest and most powerful chunk leftover after the Elder warren shattered.

The Edur who used to live in KE have scattered. A large chunk left the warren with Scabby's force to invade the Malazan world with the Andii. Presumably other smaller groups ended up elsewhere, such as the ones Rhulad's fleet found in Sepik [iirc, or somewhere else]. It's been hinted a couple of times that Edur or part-bloods were in the Shadow Cult and/or the Nameless Ones.

- Abyss, the shadow knows.

[frank]

Is it all it takes to get control over a realm to sit your behind in its throne? Theoreticly you may than just hide behind a curtain and rush forward when the present ruler takes a walk for some reason.

Will edur control of the throne make such a big difference? There are a LOT of powrhouses involved!

Does only elder warrens have thrones?

I thought that when the rope was asked if shadowthrone knew that the real throne wasn't here (in shadow) he asked if they were sure that shadowthrone was. I thought he hinted at him being more and more insubstansial the times he showed himself in shadow. Maybe he wasn't really there?

I also thought shadow broke apart because somethings were to much even for a realm to be able to stand. Scabby going for the throe doesn't seem to cut it.

Does anyone know if ascended beings still needs to go to the toilet?

[Morgoth]

you don't need to physically sit on the throne to occupy it, or so I believe at any rate. So the rushing thing would hardly work

[Dolorous Menhir]

Morgoth;121832 said:

you don't need to physically sit on the throne to occupy it, or so I believe at any rate. So the rushing thing would hardly work

I get the sense that's exactly what Kellanved did with the Imass Throne. He snuck/forced/tricked his way in, and all he had to do was sit to take control.

I imagine once you have sat the Throne it's yours until you die, someone else can't take it just by sitting on it while you are absent. They would have to remove you from it first. As we know, Kellanved still blocks the Imass Throne even though he died, and is no longer mortal.

[fan_83]

you don;t have to physically sit on the throne to claim it as yours.. ala the beast thrones.. i don;t think the 2 wolves will sit their bare asses on those thrones.. sitting on it is sort an euphesim of claiming it as your own..

the original throne of shadow is still unclaimed.. and kell is working on it to leave it that way.,,

all warrens seems to have a throne which denotes the ruler of the warren...

[Abyss]

Actually, i do not think there is a literal 'throne' in every warren. Mokra, for example, doesn't have a physical space. Consider the thrones we do firmly know of...

Kallor's Throne - probably strictly symbolic.

The First Throne - this was a vessel for the power of the Tellan Ritual. Monok or Ibra in TB says that its power was fading (subject to recharge), but it doesn't control a warren, just the T'lan Imass themselves. And then only if a mortal sat on it, not a god. Obviously linked to Tellan and the change to its aspect, but more an instrument of the people than the warren.

Shadowthrone - i can't get into details without NoKisms, but ST and Cot seized the warren by a method WAY more complicated than just planting butt to throne.

The Beast Throne - One of Fiddler's readings of the Deck suggested the thrones were only symbolic.

The Throne of Elder Shadow - we're missing a lot of info on this seat. It is clear from Rake and ST's efforts that it is of some value, and suggested that the right person sitting on it could repair KE and rule it. In theory, this is the ONLY throne that carries with it a specific power over a warren. And we do know that draconic blood and/or Scabby killing the Edur royal family had an effect on the Warren as well. If just sitting on the Throne could have prevented the breaking, someone would have done it.

Point being, the concept of a (capital T) 'Throne' has no hard and fast rule, and not all warrens are created equal.

- Abyss, spent a lot of time on the porcelain Throne thinking about this.