[The Rope]

Maybe its just me, but those are my favorite (besides Ganoes Paran) characters so far (And Icarium is up there...). There seems to have been a huge cliffhanger about all of them in BH... These five have been constant in the whole series with the exception of MT, and there is much evidence to indicate that they are each important to the final outcome. In particular, Kalam's involvement. He was near death by Paralt poison in BH, but curiously Shadowthrone brought him to the Deadhouse (have I got the Azath names right?), I assume to keep him from Hood, and if I remember correctly - Paran's life was bargained for and granted in the Azath house on Genebackis... not by bthe azath, but that was important I believe. It seems a commonality that ascendency is reached through death for the most central ascendants this far(Paran, godhead for Treach, Heboric as SA, ST and Cot...)
I wanna see Kalam return in RG and kick some empire ass... hell, i wanna see him kick ascendant ass! Note that not all of Shadow's spots are filled... (Trull is Knight, i think... different thread...)

[Danforth]

So is this discussion 'what place in the pantheon will Kalam fill if he has ascended'?

[Abyss]

The main link between Kalam, Cutter and Apsalar is Cotillion, who employed, possessed or otherwise empowered each of them. Not surprisingly, all three are assassins or a variation thereof.

It would logically follow that after Kalam's two runs in Malaz City, near death by Paralt and a stay in the Deadhouse, that Kalam is ascension-worthy, however, i suspect that Shadowthrone, on his own or via allies (QoD, Hood, possibly the Azath) is collecting assassins/warriors (Rallick, Vorcan, Leoman, Dunsparrow, possibly Topper and now Kalam) and may have a general role for them in mind (like sticking a lot of very invested knives into the CG). I suspect, however, that we won't see any of them again for a few books, given the prominent roles that a few of them had in TB.

On the Pantheon/HHShadow question, curiously, the 'Company of Shadow' gained a card this time around, even tho arguably no one there ascended, and it was stated more than once that their defence of the Throne was of debateable value, but the suggestion is that having a key role in events may be enough to earn a card. Since the 'Patron of Assassins' slot is already filled, one could see Kalam getting a kewl new card like 'Knife', 'Dagger', or 'Extremely strong buttwhupper of many Claws.'

(Paran's life was negotiated in front of Hod's gate, btw, not at an Azath.)

- Abyss, thinks maybe ST should be collecting lawyers.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Hetan;120375 said:

About Cutter... still can't understand how he didn't die with his guts dropping out like that... even though he was put back together again... it still would have taken a while for someone to get there, boil the water, clean him up and put them all back inside him

Quite right, that didn't make any sense at all. I wish he had died right there and then, I don't care about Cutter at all.

Crokus maybe, but not Cutter, he's a cipher.

[Abyss]

If every military comic, book, tv show and movie i have ever seen are to believed (fiction wouldn't lie to me, would it? disembowelment/gut wounds take a painfully long time to die of... it's mostly shock, trauma and septic leak, more than blood loss one would expect from nasty cut with a sword.

Plus it was still a near thing if L'oric hadn't shown up and stopped whining long enough to help heal him.

@Dol'Men, i find your comment interesting, because the Crokus/Cutter evolution seems to be an ongoing thing, not final. He's in a stage, so to speak. In GotM, he showed the first bits of leadership and responsibility, and brains, as when he talked Lorn out of kebabing all of his friends, in DG he learned soldiering from Fiddler, knife techniques from Kalam, and something immaterial from Icarium (Mappo refers to Crokus imitating Iccy at a few points)... in HoC he's gone thru a stint of killing for hire, and he's unhappy about it but still following/leading Apsalar around as she continues to ascend, so 'Cutter' is Crokus' rebellious i-am-a-cold-blooded-killer-ever-tho-i'm-not phase. TB was his self-doubting phase, but i wouldn't be surprised to see him pick up a few things from Barathol before returning to Darujhistan and becoming some sort of leader.

Point being, i think that there is a reason why 'Cutter' is a cipher.

- Abyss, role model.

[Hume]

Hetan;120375 said:

About Cutter... still can't understand how he didn't die with his guts dropping out like that... even though he was put back together again... it still would have taken a while for someone to get there, boil the water, clean him up and put them all back inside him

I'd say in Fantasy that would have been called 'Divine Intervention' maybe .


And i still hate Sorry. Cutter I kinda like. Kalam is still the Man .

[Morgoth]

actually, one can stay alive for even a couple of days -though in extreeme agony - as long as no vital organs are punctured.. Or so I was told anyways :/

[Dravon]

Im pretty sure that Hood had a hand in cutter's survival ( the millions of flies werent just there for fun). Hood sent a message to him with the warrior (not to mention the spear) and the QoD's seems to have a interest in him for something also. Cutter is not a just a bit character he is a major one of the series and is as conected to the whole thing as much as Paran have no doubt. Name the most powerful asendants in Wu and Cutter has met them became friends with them. Rake, Iccy, The rope, Traveler, Paran, ect ect... Cutter is very likely to be one of the ones standing at the end one of the few..

[Dolorous Menhir]

I thought the flies were the work of the mysteriously absent Bonecaster among the Unbound. They were there to ensure the ambush was a surprise, no?

How would it serve Hood to do that?

[Illuyankas]

Causing such an unusual event like hundreds of thousands of flies suddenly appearing is not what I would term a good way to catch people offguard. Who wouldn't be wary when something like that happens? Better to attack when everything seems normal.

[Obdigore]

actually, its when everything seems normal that you must most be on your guard. when you say 'hey look at that giant friken swarm of flies' and then a giant flint sword enters your back, thats much more of an ambush than... 'whats that movement? dodge!'

[Dolorous Menhir]

Illuyankas;120614 said:

Causing such an unusual event like hundreds of thousands of flies suddenly appearing is not what I would term a good way to catch people offguard. Who wouldn't be wary when something like that happens? Better to attack when everything seems normal.

Well, the reactions of the people who passed through that cloud disagree, Heboric's party didn't seem alarmed at all until the Imass appeared and started carving them up.

[Tiger_sword]

His survival was definately the work of some god (not ST or the rope though as they believe him dead). No, i agree with the Hood theory - the flies are a dead give away (excuse the pun!)

[Coldnight]

I know that flies were so far associated with Hood, but i had an impression that these flies were the Unbound themselves. They materialised at the moment of the attack. Being unbound they can't turn to dust like other T'lan Imass, so perhaps turning into flies is their way of traveling granted by CG?

[Aptorian]

Coldnight;121055 said:

I know that flies were so far associated with Hood, but i had an impression that these flies were the Unbound themselves. They materialised at the moment of the attack. Being unbound they can't turn to dust like other T'lan Imass, so perhaps turning into flies is their way of traveling granted by CG?

Pretty nice theory, allthough weren't one of the Unbound supposed to be a severed Bonecaster? A bonecaster using the CG power could probably get them around even easier.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I don't think the Imass can have D'ivers forms (which flies would be), since the first D'ivers seem to have been spawned in the human first Empire.

More importantly, only Bonecasters have Soletaken form, so it can't have been the other six Imass. I still think the Bonecaster summoned the flies as a screen.

[Aptorian]

Now that you mention it I do remember something about the Unbound rising from their grove from dust... hmm.

But I remember that after the Deragoth chewed Onrack up he was so damaged that he was severed from the ritual and besides loosing his magical vision and other senses, he lost the ability to turn to dust.

Tool on the other hand I don't remember as severed or unbound, he was made clanless so that he could assist in freeing the Jaghut without all the Logros becoming voulnerable(sp?) to Raest. He had to be a part of the ritual so that he could access Tellan and defeat the wards in Raest barrow.

I feel confused.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Yeah, the Unbound are severed from the Ritual like Onrack, right? And Onrack lost his "fall-to-dust" ability when that happened.