[Kage-za]

The Edur's very complicated death ritual suggests they do not live as long as the Andii or the Liosan. I figure their life-spans are probably similar to those of the Teblor.

I think the shattered warren probably has a lot to do with this, as does the absence of Edur gods (or the royal family that Scabby killed). The heart of KG, and presumably Andii magic is still MD. Father Light and/or Osric have left the Liosan with an imposter god who needed blood rituals to grant power--presumably a departure from what their magic was like before Osric's vacation. Unlike the Edur, both the Andii and Liosan have access to the powers of a god, whcih could preserve their longevity.

Again the Teblor make a good case study for the Edur. The Toblakai gods were in the Azath and in the mean time their people bred with other races and degenerated into the Teblor, Telemien etc., none of whom are as nasty as the original (probably).

[OtataralDragon]

I agree that the shorter life spans of the Edur is probably related to the shattering of their warren.

The Liosan are an interesting case, and I'm hoping to learn more about them soon. Aside from surviving the Moranth munitions and getting slashed by a sword, they also got swarmed by bloodflies, and suffered nothing more than an itchy crawly feeling. Guess the larvae couldn't eat them alive from the inside... Their "god" demanding blood was of course L'oric's familiar, the demon, so the blood sacrifice doesn't really reflect on the Liosan themselves. (Except maybe the part where they didn't think it strange at all - short memories?) And L'oric's conversation with Heboric is tainted by the fact that he's part Tiste Liosan himself, so I take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

The Liosan and Edur both have warrior-priests, while the Andii have sorcerors. That's another possible root to any differences in "power."

[SiriusL]

Another thought I had was whether the shorter lifespans (if indeed they are shorter) may be due to inbreeding with other races. The Edur stay pretty isolated, but they are aware of other races around them, including the Tarthenal and Nerek. It's not unreasonable that they had some mixing with these shorter-lived races, much as one of the Edur sergeants (Andalath?) was a Andii mix.

Also, as Seren Pedac (I think) points out, the Bluerose Andii are also "diluted", which is another precedent.

OtataralDragon said:

Their "god" demanding blood was of course L'oric's familiar, the demon, so the blood sacrifice doesn't really reflect on the Liosan themselves.

Good point. The Liosan don't have a real god, which would make accessing his/her warren more problematic. I guess we can assume that the Andii have full use of KG.

Also, what other Andii do we know that are extraordinarly powerful? Rake is obviously an exception because he's an Ascendant and on of MD's first children.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Orfantal, Korlat, etc. Many are soletaken, which suggests great power.

[SiriusL]

Thelomen Toblerone;153169 said:

Orfantal, Korlat, etc. Many are soletaken, which suggests great power.

Sure, but have we seen them in action? Korlat certainly couldn't handle Kallor, though it was admittedly a sucker punch. She didn't do as well as Tays, even.

I'm just wondering if the tendency to ascribe great power to all Andii mages is skewed by Rake. Seems like he would be a rather large exception to any rule.

Plus, I'm not sure Soletaken alone means power, does it (eg, the Jheck)?
I guess if you could drink Tiam's blood...

[Dolorous Menhir]

I think you are being too harsh to Korlat, and the Andii in general.

First of all, Korlat didn't lose to Kallor in a fair fight. He incapacitated her immediately in an unforeseen betrayal. That's not proof she is weaker than him, I would even say it demonstrates the opposite. Had the fight been fair, Korlat would've turned into her Eleint form and won.

And the Andii aren't just any Soletaken, they are Eleint. Magic using Dragons with access to the most powerful Elder Warrens of Kurald Galain & Starvald Demelain. This is way ahead of the Jheck, who were just non-mages that could turn into big wolves. The Andii are better than the average Soletaken.

Remember how Orfantal was fighting in his dragon form. Rake is supposed to have four of those (his assassin mages), and they are very powerful. I'm a bit doubtful of whether the four still live, assuming they were Korlat, Orfantal, Serrat (deceased) and an unnamed fourth.

Bottom line, the Andii are very powerful in their own right, they owe their reputation to more than just Rake.

[SiriusL]

Well, that's why I qualified my statement by pointing out their Eleint aspect. But again, those are just the ones you specified--not the Andii in general.

I'm not trying to discount the Andii or be harsh towards Korlat. I just don't like generalizing about an entire species using three or four of its individuals.

I do think the Edur were weakened by the shattering of KE--how could they not? I believe Uruth or Binadas mentions that they can only access fragments at a time, implying that it would be far more effective if it were whole.