[HoosierDaddy]

I think the NBA is the worst "premiere" professional sporting league in the world. But, that's just my opinion.

[amphibian]

H.D., on 19 February 2010 - 04:32 AM, said:

I think the NBA is the worst "premiere" professional sporting league in the world. But, that's just my opinion.

It's go time: Why?

[HoosierDaddy]

It's horribly cash inefficient. But not really why I don't like it.
It's based around individual players and not teams. We're getting there now.
It's basketball at only the most basic of levels. Here we go. That's what I'm talking about.

I'll willingly admit to being a basketball snob. I grew up in a state that worshiped basketball as a religion. My school of 500 students and town of 6,000 residents has a basketball gym that seats 3,150 people. I'm sick and tired of watching isolation and pick and rolls. It's boring and tired. Are there fantastic athletes? Yes. Most certainly. Do they take basketball from a sport to a form of art? No.

If I wanted to see pick and rolls, easy penetration into the lane, uncontested dunks and jump-shots, and defenses that can't possibly contain offense due to restrictions, I've got my product in the NBA.

Guaranteed contracts are stupid and have created a league that is based around winning the lottery by losing the most games in a season now. 18 year olds go to college for one year to go Pro, and completely screw up the LAST BEST VESTIGE OF GOOD AMERICAN BASKETBALL because of that fact.

Uh. I fucking hate it. Watching NBA games in the regular season is harder than watching a regular season MLB game, and that's fucking saying something. The players don't care until the 4th quarter and the Playoffs. Worst "premiere" professional league in the world.

[Slow Ben]

Yep, nailed it.

[amphibian]

H.D., on 19 February 2010 - 05:49 AM, said:

It's based around individual players and not teams. We're getting there now.

I don't get the loyalty to a specific team. I find following the trials, tribulations and quirks of individual players, coaches and GMs far more interesting than learning the history of specific teams. I'm interested in basketball with style, which is something that a single team may not always supply.

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I'm sick and tired of watching isolation and pick and rolls. It's boring and tired. Are there fantastic athletes? Yes. Most certainly. Do they take basketball from a sport to a form of art? No.

If I wanted to see pick and rolls, easy penetration into the lane, uncontested dunks and jump-shots, and defenses that can't possibly contain offense due to restrictions, I've got my product in the NBA.

You were a fan of the mid-'90s Hack-'em NBA then?

You have focused on small segments of easily recognized plays and actions within the game, but I'll tell you that very few teams in basketball these days do not run the pick'n'roll or pick'n'pop. No good team would exclusively rely upon it - the Jazz, once famous proponents of it, have now shifted primarily to a flex offense. The only people easily getting into the paint in the NBA are named LeBron, Carmelo, Kevin, Dwyane, Steve and Tyreke. And they don't do it all that often. Jump shots are contested - it's why the Celtics have been so good: they do it the best.

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Guaranteed contracts are stupid and have created a league that is based around winning the lottery by losing the most games in a season now. 18 year olds go to college for one year to go Pro, and completely screw up the LAST BEST VESTIGE OF GOOD AMERICAN BASKETBALL because of that fact.

Cash inefficient? As opposed to a pretty much guaranteed lockout for the NFL soon because the owners want the players to help pay for the stadiums and other incredibly odd demands?

One and dones are a favor to college basketball. They got to see Durant for a year and the NBA manages to keep ten or twelve of its veterans in one year longer. College basketball is shoddy in terms of actual gameplay, skill and coaching when compared to the NBA. It may be a better environment for those who prefer to follow a specific team, but I'm interested in the game as it's played at its best - which college ball doesn't supply.

Guaranteed contracts can be albatrosses, but they do create a very intriguing situation where long-term, high-dollar contracts have be carefully considered and dealt with. Yes, plenty of mistakes happen, but those who deal with them the best stay on as GMs and build very fun teams to watch e.g. the Oklahoma City Thunder or the Portland Trailblazers. Losing the most games does not mean you get the top pick. The NFL works that way. The team that loses the most games gets the highest percentage of possibly getting the top pick - but it's not guaranteed. I think that situation works a little better than the one to one tank-pick ratio of the NFL.

Screwing up the "last vestiges of good basketball" is a huge topic and one I don't think is true or fair to apportion all of the blame on the NBA. I won't even go into what is "American basketball" vs. what would be "not-American basketball".

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The players don't care until the 4th quarter and the Playoffs. Worst "premiere" professional league in the world.

There is an ebb and flow to the season, but the vast, vast majority of players will give good to great effort night in and night out. There's 82 games in a season, played all over the country, over six, seven months. Plus countless practices, film sessions and personal stuff.

This is the best the NBA has ever been. There are a surprising amount of superstars, great teams and enough media coverage for just about any level of fandom. Plus they go up and down the court pretty quickly. Stuff happens all the time in basketball - as opposed to the constant dead ball time in the NFL. I'm of course biased towards it, but I don't understand the hostility towards a league that strives to humanize its competitors and their individual attributes far more so than football or the other team sports do.

[HoosierDaddy]

We'll have to agree to disagree because nothing you say will convince me that the NBA is "good." They are the best players, certainly, but I don't think the product matches the skill levels. It's opinion, and mine is based nearly entirely on viewing experience, which I have quite an extensive array of, by the by.

You like it. I can tolerate it, and I'll watch it from time to time. But, that's only because I have a partial loyalty to the Pacers. Maybe I'll watch a little bit of the Finals, because playoff basketball to me is far different than regular season ball.

I guarantee you I am biased by growing up where I did, and I'm sure that has heaps to do with my opinion.

By the way, the Pacers play exactly the way I stated. Perhaps the better statement would have been "isolation, isolation, isolation."

[amphibian]

H.D., on 20 February 2010 - 12:35 AM, said:

By the way, the Pacers play exactly the way I stated. Perhaps the better statement would have been "isolation, isolation, isolation."

]That Pacers team might be the second worst team in the league in terms of talent (Nets have one very good center [Lopez], decent PG [Harris], halfway decent SG, might be decent SF [Yi]). Earl Watson is their starting PG - which means they have essentially no point guard. I have no idea what Larry Bird is building over there, but it has to be at least several years away. Iso might be the only way - other than a pure Princeton or triangle offense - to get actual points on the board. Ugh.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Nope, didn't understand a word of that.

[Slow Ben]

Thats because you dont care. Because the NBA is incredibly boring.

[knight of shadows]

Slow Ben, on 21 February 2010 - 11:50 PM, said:

Thats because you dont care. Because the NBA is incredibly boring.

Yeah but nowhere near as boring as baseball

[Tiste Simeon]

I flipping love baseball. Nerds game of choice as they spend most of the time throwing unimportant facts at you!

[teholbeddict]

I've never understood that lack of love for basketball on the board. It's one of my favourite sports and there's nothing boring about it. I'll take basketball over baseball., hockey or even football any day of the week.

Edit: Well said in your above posts Amph!

[Obdigore]

Basketball is just so boring. The playoffs are ok, when teams actually play defense, the other times it is just up to whoever can not-miss the most shots or if you have a big name, whoever can take the most 5-step leadups to dunk the ball.

If travelling was called on the 'superstars' or if defence was actually played during the season, it might be entertaining. As it is, I just see it as sweaty tall men running up and down the 'court' seeing who can miss the least when their job is not to miss. Didn't Shaq only shoot like 50% free-throws? If I only managed to complete 50% of my work, my ass would be fired. It is a joke.

[Daser]

Offseason............normally isnt to exciting, but i feel like Arizona will be a new team next year. Between retirement and freeagency losses and laying of some old guys, it will be like another team. Also hampered by the restrictions of finished in the final 8 last year. I am worried most of the time, but also excited to see how the team will do next season.

How are your guys teams doing?

[knight of shadows]

Obdigore, on 04 March 2010 - 02:37 PM, said:

Basketball is just so boring. The playoffs are ok, when teams actually play defense, the other times it is just up to whoever can not-miss the most shots or if you have a big name, whoever can take the most 5-step leadups to dunk the ball.

If travelling was called on the 'superstars' or if defence was actually played during the season, it might be entertaining. As it is, I just see it as sweaty tall men running up and down the 'court' seeing who can miss the least when their job is not to miss. Didn't Shaq only shoot like 50% free-throws? If I only managed to complete 50% of my work, my ass would be fired. It is a joke.

yeah man I agree once an athlete reaches the pros and gets a good contract their work ethic tends to go down the drain you see it in almost all of the professional sports. That's why I like cycling given most days you only get a minute or two of real excitement but you don't get winners that won't do work and some days like a mountain stages in the tour you could be on the edge of your seat for hours.

[Gladius]

Daser, on 07 March 2010 - 06:05 PM, said:

Offseason............normally isnt to exciting, but i feel like Arizona will be a new team next year. Between retirement and freeagency losses and laying of some old guys, it will be like another team. Also hampered by the restrictions of finished in the final 8 last year. I am worried most of the time, but also excited to see how the team will do next season.

How are your guys teams doing?

Well up until the point where Mike Holmgren traded away one of our 2011 Draft picks to aquire Seneca Wallace from the Sea Hawks I would have said the Browns were having a pretty decent off season. One bad aquisition can often be enough to over shadow all the good ones
, hopefully this isnt the case. I like the Scott Fujita aquisition to bolster the line backing corps, and Tony Pasho's gives us a veteran option at right tackle, a position played by anybody not doing anything else last season.

[caladanbrood]

Why does a team that relied so much on their running game release Thomas Jones?? I'm not up to speed on NFL off-season shenanigans, so can someone explain?

[KalamMekhar]

2 names sir, Shonne Greene and Leon Washington, Greene did really well when he was given opportunities and with leon healthythey really dont need Jones, hes a vet and costs more money.

[Grumble]

Gladius, on 09 March 2010 - 06:41 AM, said:

Daser, on 07 March 2010 - 06:05 PM, said:

Offseason............normally isnt to exciting, but i feel like Arizona will be a new team next year. Between retirement and freeagency losses and laying of some old guys, it will be like another team. Also hampered by the restrictions of finished in the final 8 last year. I am worried most of the time, but also excited to see how the team will do next season.

How are your guys teams doing?

Well up until the point where Mike Holmgren traded away one of our 2011 Draft picks to aquire Seneca Wallace from the Sea Hawks I would have said the Browns were having a pretty decent off season. One bad aquisition can often be enough to over shadow all the good ones
, hopefully this isnt the case. I like the Scott Fujita aquisition to bolster the line backing corps, and Tony Pasho's gives us a veteran option at right tackle, a position played by anybody not doing anything else last season.

Bringing in a guy who knows the system and who has better stats than your two QB's for a lowish draft choice next year sounds good to me !

[Obdigore]

I don't know Grumble, I just can't see Seneca actually being 'the guy' in the NFL.